Usain Bolt's Olympic 100m win

[Pigeon]

**** me that's an amazing time by Bolt. If he's clean, he's got claims of being the greatest athlete ever. Also interesting to see that Tyson Gay ran a time faster than Bolts at Beijing and that Powell beat Ben Johnsons drug assisted time.

I don't understand the adjective "If he is clean". Surely we all know what happened and what could have happened at Beijing if he had not indulged in early celebrations. And oh, the umpteen tests that were done before and after...

 

[Matt79]

Whoops - ignore my call re Gay then. Had in my head as I wrote that that Bolt ran 9.75 in Beijing. I think I'm right in saying that Gay's time is the 3rd fastest in history however?

Re whether he's clean or not - I agree that he's obviously been clean in all his tests to date, unfortunately there have been cases where people years down the track have been revealed to have been doping. He's smashed records so thoroughly that he's either found some legitimate means to boost his performance that no one else has found, or he's on drugs, or (and I hope this is the case) he's a legitimate freak. I'd like the last option to be true and think it probably is, but experience has shown us in the last 20 years that drugs that are not captured yet in tests are a genuine possibility. It's why what's happened to athletics sucks so much - any exceptional performance has a virtual asterisk over it.

 

[Pigeon]

Whoops - ignore my call re Gay then. Had in my head as I wrote that that Bolt ran 9.75 in Beijing. I think I'm right in saying that Gay's time is the 3rd fastest in history however?

Re whether he's clean or not - I agree that he's obviously been clean in all his tests to date, unfortunately there have been cases where people years down the track have been revealed to have been doping. He's smashed records so thoroughly that he's either found some legitimate means to boost his performance that no one else has found, or he's on drugs, or (and I hope this is the case) he's a legitimate freak. I'd like the last option to be true and think it probably is, but experience has shown us in the last 20 years that drugs that are not captured yet in tests are a genuine possibility. It's why what's happened to athletics sucks so much - any exceptional performance has a virtual asterisk over it.

There is a huge difference. Drugs testing has grown leaps and bounds, and Bolt just loves to run rather than to win.

 

[pasag]

**** me that's an amazing time by Bolt. If he's clean, he's got claims of being the greatest athlete ever.

I've never seen anything like it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

There is a huge difference. Drugs testing has grown leaps and bounds, and Bolt just loves to run rather than to win.

Doping will always be one step ahead of detection for the simple reason a drug has to be developed before a test for it can be devised.

I'm not accusing Bolt of anything, btw and sincerely hope he is clean but the argument that "he's never tested for anything so he must be drug-free" is a facile one. Lance Armstrong & Flo-Jo never submitted positive tests either and, well, you know...

EDIT: As I said only a few posts before. If a point's worth making once...

 

[Jono]

Where is this Lance Armstrong is on drugs info? Brumby mentions it everytime, and I haven't read about it (not saying its not true, rather seeking some links for some interesting reading).

 

[GIMH]

I don't understand the adjective "If he is clean". Surely we all know what happened and what could have happened at Beijing if he had not indulged in early celebrations. And oh, the umpteen tests that were done before and after...

Obviously you don't understand what an adjective is, either

 

[Majin]

Prefere to believe that he is just a legitimate freak of nature myself and just a total gun. However, let's just say it does turn out he's a juicer, well, I still won't really care, X amount of athletes before him have juiced and none of them have ever even come close so he's still more of a freak than any of them. Athletics has got far too a dirty history for me to really care anymore.

But as it is yeah, I'm pretty happy to believe that he's clean and just a total beast. Love the dude itbt, think he's a genius.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Where is this Lance Armstrong is on drugs info? Brumby mentions it everytime, and I haven't read about it (not saying its not true, rather seeking some links for some interesting reading).

Originally L'Equipe alleged urine samples Armstrong gave in 1999 (before a test for the drug was developed) subsequently tested positive for EPO. From The Guardian.

Armstrong then refused to have the samples retested.
From The Telegraph.

 

[Pigeon]

Obviously you don't understand what an adjective is, either

Grammar police :rolleye: Feel free to substitute it with "qualification" then.

 

[Pigeon]

Doping will always be one step ahead of detection for the simple reason a drug has to be developed before a test for it can be devised.

I'm not accusing Bolt of anything, btw and sincerely hope he is clean but the argument that "he's never tested for anything so he must be drug-free" is a facile one. Lance Armstrong & Flo-Jo never submitted positive tests either and, well, you know...

EDIT: As I said only a few posts before. If a point's worth making once...

I don't accept that if others have done, he also must have. He is just the best athlete ever produced in written history. Why can't people accept that?

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't accept that if others have done, he also must have. He is just the best athlete ever produced in written history. Why can't people accept that?

I didn't say that at all. I was saying that just because he hasn't tested positive it doesn't follow that he's clean and using two allegedly notorious dopers who hadn't either as examples.

 

[Ikki]

Yeah, but why limit that to Usain? All athletes by that criteria can't claim to be drug-free, just that they may have not been caught. Which is unfair IMO as it implies that the sports person in question is guilty but for a lack of proof or investigatory methods is deemed innocent of the crime of doping.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, but why limit that to Usain? All athletes by that criteria can't claim to be drug-free, just that they may have not been caught. Which is unfair IMO as it implies that the sports person in question is guilty but for a lack of proof or investigatory methods is deemed innocent of the crime of doping.

I'm not limiting it to him. I was saying it's facile to suggest that just because he or anyone else hasn't tested positive that it follows that they're necessarily clean. It can't be that hard a concept to grasp, surely?

 

[roseboy64]

Can't see how he'd be doping considering simply economics before last year.

 

[Pigeon]

I'm not limiting it to him. I was saying it's facile to suggest that just because he or anyone else hasn't tested positive that it follows that they're necessarily clean. It can't be that hard a concept to grasp, surely?

So they are guilty till proven innocent. That I think is a facile thinking.

 

[Pigeon]

So they are guilty till proven innocent. That I think is a facile thinking.

And to say, Bolt did not drop from the sky in 2008. His talent was there for everyone to see right from 15 years of age. And his progression, as startling as it was, natural, albeit on a more parabolic curve than usual.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Can't see how he'd be doping considering simply economics before last year.

Ind33d. In fact, I've never heard of anybody being in debt to a drug dealer...

 

[BoyBrumby]

So they are guilty till proven innocent. That I think is a facile thinking.

Yes, it would be, but that isn't what I'm saying.

I'm having an "is it just me?" moment here, so I'll try to explain as simply as I can.

Someone said they were happy to assume he was clean until they hear otherwise, which is fine. It is indicative of innocence. I was trying to point out tho that the absence of a positive test doesn't necessarily mean an athlete is clean and illustrated my point with two athletes where there are good reasons to believe otherwise. I could also cite Marion Jones who never tested positive in competition but actually served jailtime for perjuring herself under oath regarding her use of perfermance enhancers.

However, what I'm not suggesting is that Bolt is doping just because others have.

 

[Pigeon]

He made his first appearance on the world stage at the 2001 IAAF World Youth Championships in Debrecen, Hungary. Running in the 200 m event, he failed to qualify for the finals, but he still set a new personal best of 21.73 s.[17] Bolt still did not take athletics or himself too seriously, however, and he took his mischievousness to new heights by hiding in the back of a van when he was supposed to be preparing for the 200 m finals at the CARIFTA Trials. He was detained by the police for his practical joke, and there was an outcry from the local community, which blamed coach McNeil for the incident.[15] However, the controversy subsided, and both McNeil and Bolt went to the CARIFTA Games, where Bolt set championship records in the 200 m and 400 m with times of 21.12 s and 47.33 s, respectively