Why Don’t I care more?

[Shri]

Remove the sledging restrictions and make it an anything-goes game. We will have less boring matches.

 

[Demon43]

I Like this guy and his theory

Remove the sledging restrictions and make it an anything-goes game. We will have less boring matches.

 

[pasag]

Add '2005' to the filter, IMO.

 

[Richard]

Funnily enough I've had a largely similar feeling to Pothas\sledger\zaremba throughout much of this series. I said at the start in the "how much will you watch?" thread that I'll be watching most of it as I won't be signing myself up for overtime in-match... but I've been sufficiently not-gripped to do so on several occasions. I didn't even watch the end of the Edgbaston and Headingley Tests, preferring to spend my time doing something constructive with long-term benefits, so inevitable and boring was the conclusion of both.

A terrific, closely fought Oval Test where England prevail, just, might well change the complexion at the last, same way a really sunny second half of August (whether we're likely to get it or not) and people will probably remember once more how good the weather was in May and June and largely forget the woeful July, and dub 2009 a fine summer. And the same way if I've had a **** night out with 3 or 4 ch00ns I like in 3 hours, then the last half-hour is packed with them, I still think "that was a good night". What happens at the denounement is so, so important to how something is looked back upon.

But the reasons mentioned by Uppercut and zaremba are all quite likely ones.

 

[Uppercut]

Personally, I always found Giles quite the character, there was always a sense of the underdog about him, and how every other touring country identified and targeted him as the weak link in the England side, there was always (for me personally) great personal satisfaction at seeing him turn it on and put in a performance (like when he bowled Damien Martyn in 2005 or Brian Lara the summer before). The fact that he was regarded as a joke by the English media and labelled "Wheelie Bin" just made me like him more, and added something to his character. Though Swann is arguably of similar ability, and a nice chap to boot, there is just something totally plain about him which doesn't draw my utmost support, and makes him very hard to identify with. I don't expect you to be swayed by this argument in the slightest, but for me personally there was something a lot more distinct about previous England sides, the current crop though perfectly pleasant and nice, just have a sense of "pap" about them, they are neither dislikeable (apart from Stuart Broad arguably) or truly likeable.

Have you ever seen or read an interview with Graeme Swann? Or heard anything the people who know him have said about him?

The guy's a clown. Brutally honest in interviews, never afraid to give the opposition a bit of stick and allegedly a serial prankster in the dressing room. Maybe you got that impression from his bowling style, because basic off-spin seems a little dull in an era of doosras and carrom balls, but it's very odd indeed to compare him unfavourably with Ashley Giles personality-wise. The guy's anything but plain.

Maybe it's just a bad example, but it kinda makes me inclined to put your impression of the changing England team moreso down to your own nostalgia than the actual side.

 

[GIMH]

Funnily enough I've had a largely similar feeling to Pothas\sledger\zaremba throughout much of this series. I said at the start in the "how much will you watch?" thread that I'll be watching most of it as I won't be signing myself up for overtime in-match... but I've been sufficiently not-gripped to do so on several occasions. I didn't even watch the end of the Trent Bridge and Headingley Tests, preferring to spend my time doing something constructive with long-term benefits, so inevitable and boring was the conclusion of both.

A terrific, closely fought Oval Test where England prevail, just, might well change the complexion at the last, same way a really sunny second half of August (whether we're likely to get it or not) and people will probably remember once more how good the weather was in May and June and largely forget the woeful July, and dub 2009 a fine summer. And the same way if I've had a **** night out with 3 or 4 ch00ns I like in 3 hours, then the last half-hour is packed with them, I still think "that was a good night". What happens at the denounement is so, so important to how something is looked back upon.

But the reasons mentioned by Uppercut and zaremba are all quite likely ones.

TBF Rich, the rest of the forum never watched a single day of that test

The end of the Headingley Test was the best cricket of the series so far IMO

 

[sledger]

Have you ever seen or read an interview with Graeme Swann? Or heard anything the people who know him have said about him?

The guy's a clown. Brutally honest in interviews, never afraid to give the opposition a bit of stick and allegedly a serial prankster in the dressing room. Maybe you got that impression from his bowling style, because basic off-spin seems a little dull in an era of doosras and carrom balls, but it's very odd indeed to compare him unfavourably with Ashley Giles personality-wise. The guy's anything but plain.

Maybe it's just a bad example, but it kinda makes me inclined to put your impression of the changing England team moreso down to your own nostalgia than the actual side.

I don't think you'd be wrong to do so, to be completely honest. Nostalgia certainly is part of the reason, I don't think there is much doubt about that. But I don't think it's the sole reason. As for the character of Swann, maybe he isn't plain, perhaps it was a poor choice of words by me, but despite all of the factors you mentioned, inexplicably I just find him incredibly generic. Maybe it's just the fact that I do not identify of people of said character particularly well, I'm not sure. Don't get me wrong, I harbour no ill feeling towards him at all, and don't dislike him, I'm just a bit...indifferent I guess, much like with the rest of the side.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, I wasn't taking a jab, I'm genuinely wondering whether there's anything to it or it's largely nostalgia. Personally for me it's as it's ever been- there are certain characters with back stories that I want to do well. Stuart Broad is someone for example, because he gets so much unnecessary abuse after being the only man who stood up and outshone his entire team when the chips were down in the West Indies. On the other hand, Ian Bell is a pathetic batsman who continually gets recalled with no one else ever getting a go, with Steve Harmison the bowling equivalent.

Then on the Australian side I desperately want Midge Johnson to find his best form simply because it's incredible to watch when he does. It's also nice to see players like Hauritz and Hilfenhaus do so well after being completely written off, but I'm not an especially big fan of Michael Clarke or Brad Haddin.

There's always been a lot of sub-plots and drama for me, especially in an Ashes series. The cricket itself has been a little disappointing, but not much else has changed.

 

[sledger]

To be honest, another thing Pothas and I discussed the other day, is the reason we often want a lot of players to do well, is because of the amount of stick they get from certain folk on here, with Beevers and Ikki getting notable mentions.

My thoughts on Ian Bell and Steve Harmison are much the same as yours also.

 

[tooextracool]

I think nostalgia is having an enormous effect here, but also think that the fact that most of the players are relatively young or new to international and Ashes cricket is also having an influence. I mean honestly, how much do people know about the likes of Swann, Onions, Bopara, Prior etc? If its hard to get behind them, its because so little is known about them.

 

[Richard]

It's also nice to see players like Hauritz and Hilfenhaus do so well after being completely written off

Seriously, who honestly wrote Hilfenhaus off? OK, there were a few people who said "he swings it too early and bowls too short" after the SA series but honestly, was anyone saying "he'll never make a Test bowler"? I didn't see anyone say so, and it'd be mad if anyone did. No-one was expecting him to play in this series, but that's totally different from him being written-off.

Anyway FTR I hate seeing players like Hauritz do well after being written-off, because the reasons for them being written-off were sound. In actual fact one of the things I enjoy most in cricket is seeing someone who patently shouldn't be there make it obvious they shouldn't with their performances, thus making a fool of whoever was stupid enough to believe they were.

 

[Kweek]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/off-topic/43437-general-poor-standard-written-spoken-english.html

I knew it was going to bite him up his arse

 

[vic_orthdox]

I knew it was going to bite him up his arse

Must've really dug in there, then.

 

[sledger]

I think nostalgia is having an enormous effect here, but also think that the fact that most of the players are relatively young or new to international and Ashes cricket is also having an influence. I mean honestly, how much do people know about the likes of Swann, Onions, Bopara, Prior etc? If its hard to get behind them, its because so little is known about them.

I think this is a valid point and there is some truth behind it. I think this is definitely true of Onions and Bopara. But I certainly have known of Prior and Swann for ages now, so i'm not sure how much you can this about them. Can say similar things for Cook, who initially had my support in the sense of him being the "fresh young talent on the scene" so to speak, but nowadays he is neither great enough to truly get behind, neither is he rubbish enough to dislike, he is truly middle of the road. In fact Bopara is probably the one who intsills the most emotion in me out of that lot, as he has looked so inept I just get a sense of dread of seeing him walk into bat, and kind of plays a pantomime villain sort of character in my head, though again, I have nothing against him.

It is also certainly true to say I miss the old England team, and characters like Nasser, Butcher, Thorpe, Trescothick and Vaughan, there was just something ultimately more..interesting about them, but I am at a loss to truly say why, other than the nostalgic effect as has previously been mentioned.

 

[Pothas]

I think nostalgia is having an enormous effect here, but also think that the fact that most of the players are relatively young or new to international and Ashes cricket is also having an influence. I mean honestly, how much do people know about the likes of Swann, Onions, Bopara, Prior etc? If its hard to get behind them, its because so little is known about them.

Yeah nostalgia no doubt plays a large part in it but I still think that this England team has very little charisma on the field. I keep thinking that it is just because I am being nostalgic for previous series but then I am reminded that I have warmed to a number of Australian players during this series and do genuinely think there is something rather bland about this England side.

 

[tooextracool]

I think this is a valid point and there is some truth behind it. I think this is definitely true of Onions and Bopara. But I certainly have known of Prior and Swann for ages now, so i'm not sure how much you can this about them. Can say similar things for Cook, who initially had my support in the sense of him being the "fresh young talent on the scene" so to speak, but nowadays he is neither great enough to truly get behind, neither is he rubbish enough to dislike, he is truly middle of the road. In fact Bopara is probably the one who intsills the most emotion in me out of that lot, as he has looked so inept I just get a sense of dread of seeing him walk into bat, and kind of plays a pantomime villain sort of character in my head, though again, I have nothing against him.

It is also certainly true to say I miss the old England team, and characters like Nasser, Butcher, Thorpe, Trescothick and Vaughan, there was just something ultimately more..interesting about them, but I am at a loss to truly say why, other than the nostalgic effect as has previously been mentioned.

With all due respect to Thorpe, its very hard to put him and 'interesting' in the same sentence. There are hardly any stories about Thorpe, most who know him just think of him as someone who kept to himself, his style of play was calculated and involved playing to his strengths which was neither interesting nor dangerous. He was a very good player, yes but aside from that it is very hard to see how anyone can get behind him and not behind most of this England side.

 

[tooextracool]

Yeah nostalgia no doubt plays a large part in it but I still think that this England team has very little charisma on the field. I keep thinking that it is just because I am being nostalgic for previous series but then I am reminded that I have warmed to a number of Australian players during this series and do genuinely think there is something rather bland about this England side.

Hmm, i would say I find this Australian side quite bland if we are to talk about characters compared to sides of the past tbh. With the exception of Watson, Ponting and Siddle and quite possibly Clarke, its hard to see where the charisma comes from. But each person has their own preference I guess.

Anyhow, cant really say that I've given a toss about charisma tbh. I'd just rather watch two extremely talented teams play each other and exhibit some of their extraordinary skills. Yes its great to have characters like Flintoff and Warne but at the end of the day would you rather watch Tendulkar bat or Flintoff?

 

[sledger]

With all due respect to Thorpe, its very hard to put him and 'interesting' in the same sentence. There are hardly any stories about Thorpe, most who know him just think of him as someone who kept to himself, his style of play was calculated and involved playing to his strengths which was neither interesting nor dangerous. He was a very good player, yes but aside from that it is very hard to see how anyone can get behind him and not behind most of this England side.

Well I think the fact that he was an excellent batsman also had something to do with it. Plus the fact that he had massive problems in his personal life which he overcame to come back and become one of the best and most reliable players in the England side made him extremely likeable.

 

[Frakstar]

Anyway FTR I hate seeing players like Hauritz do well after being written-off, because the reasons for them being written-off were sound.

You sir, are a joke, what sort of comment is that!.....

 

[Richard]

You sir, are a joke

Not really. A person can't be a joke, TBH. Have a joke, sure, but I don't even do that very often.

what sort of comment is that!.....

A comment which expresses a personal feeling. You can't really argue against it, you can just say your feelings are different. I prefer to see rubbish players shown to be rubbish ones, not to be made to look better than they are, personally. Obviously, some people think differently, but that's their choice, not mine.