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*Official* Fifth Test at The Oval

Stapel

Stapel

International Regular
Prince EWS said:
Perhaps Trott was only being considered for #6, and not #3.
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I think that's the point: bringing in a debutant at #3 during the Ashes decider seems more risky than bringing in an old warrior.

BTW, it's just my gut feeling that says Ramps is on the brink of being selected.
 
zaremba

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Top_Cat said:
Pretty naive if you reckon Aus won't target any wounds if Trecothick plays. What the Aussies might have curbed a bit was swearing and, obviously, any racially-based sledges or anything else really offensive. But if Tresco plays, he's fair game especially with an Ashes series on the line.
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I imagine they'd sledge in the normal way, and I have no problem with that (beyond the problem that I have with sledging generally).

However I would be genuinely amazed if they had a go at him about his psychiatric problems. I just think they have too much self-respect to stoop that low, besides which they would know what a devastating effect that would have on their individual and collective reputations. ("Choo choo" anyone?)
 
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BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Top_Cat said:
Pretty naive if you reckon Aus won't target any wounds if Trecothick plays. What the Aussies might have curbed a bit was swearing and, obviously, any racially-based sledges or anything else really offensive. But if Tresco plays, he's fair game especially with an Ashes series on the line.
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I'm certainly not condoning either, but is racial abuse really any more offensive than taunting someone who's suffered from a depressive illness? I'd hope both were off the table, myself.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Possibles update - Joyce goes 2.
Warwickshire are batting, but haven't lost a wicket yet.

btw I just caught an interview with Johnson - very modest and honest about his series to date. I'll have to review my opinion after his antics at Lord's.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
zaremba said:
I imagine they'd sledge in the normal way, and I have no problem with that (beyond the problem that I have with sledging generally).

However I would be genuinely amazed if they had a go at him about his psychiatric problems. I just think they have too much self-respect to stoop that low, besides which they would know what a devastating effect that would have on their individual and collective reputations. ("Choo choo" anyone?)
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Would be interesting, and a very fine line.

Might be tempted to have a crack at him about being a glory hunter, coming in at the end of the series, trying to take Fred's thunder, etc. But in the end, it's all because of his condition. Vicious cycle, etc.
 
Top_Cat

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
zaremba said:
However I would be genuinely amazed if they had a go at him about his psychiatric problems. I just think they have too much self-respect to stoop that low, besides which they would know what a devastating effect that would have on their individual and collective reputations. ("Choo choo" anyone?)
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First off, Chris Cairns has denied the 'choo choo' happened and I believe him. If I was him and on the field someone made a crack like that, they'd get thumped and Cairns said as much too.

Second, I don't think psychiatric problems, especially depressive ones, are rated very seriously amongst the general populace. Many people think depression is just feeling bad, not an illness. And last I saw, sportsmen didn't go to any psychiatric sensitivity training. They might steer clear of it initially but if he starts scoring runs, wouldn't put it past most of the Aussies to say something about it.
 
pup11

pup11

International Coach
Top_Cat said:
First off, Chris Cairns has denied the 'choo choo' happened and I believe him. If I was him and on the field someone made a crack like that, they'd get thumped and Cairns said as much too.

Second, I don't think psychiatric problems, especially depressive ones, are rated very seriously amongst the general populace. Many people think depression is just feeling bad, not an illness. And last I saw, sportsmen didn't go to any psychiatric sensitivity training. They might steer clear of it initially but if he starts scoring runs, wouldn't put it past most of the Aussies to say something about it.
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True, it would be so insensitive on the part of the ECB to even think of exposing a bloke like him to such a thing, and rightfully to their credit they are not even thinking about it.

Professional sport can be really tough in many aspects for even a normal ruthless professional athlete, but for person who has a history of suffering from bouts of depression, it can virtually prove to be a nightmarish experience.
 
zaremba

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Top_Cat said:
First off, Chris Cairns has denied the 'choo choo' happened and I believe him. If I was him and on the field someone made a crack like that, they'd get thumped and Cairns said as much too.

Second, I don't think psychiatric problems, especially depressive ones, are rated very seriously amongst the general populace. Many people think depression is just feeling bad, not an illness. And last I saw, sportsmen didn't go to any psychiatric sensitivity training. They might steer clear of it initially but if he starts scoring runs, wouldn't put it past most of the Aussies to say something about it.
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As for "choo choo", I didn't say it happened - I don't believe it did. What did happen though, was that this unpleasant accusation was levelled at the Australian team, which they vociferously denied, and were upset that they could even be accused of such a thing. My point being, they don't want to be seen to stoop so low; they want to make it clear that there are limits.

As for psychiatric illness, I hear what you're saying about public perception and agree that there may be one or two in the Aussie team who would think that it was fair game for sledging. But the matter would be discussed amongst the team before the game, and they would surely come to a collective decision that this is not something about which they want to be sledging him. Think about it - we mock Ricky Ponting for his "Spirit of Cricket" sermonising, but even he must realise that if his team were seen to sledge a bloke about a psychiatric illness, that would be pretty clearly "not cricket".
 
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four_or_six

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
zaremba said:
As for "choo choo", I didn't say it happened - I don't believe it did. What did happen though, was that this unpleasant accusation was levelled at the Australian team, which they vociferously denied, and were upset that they could even be accused of such a thing. My point being, they don't want to be seen to stoop so low; they want to make it clear that there are limits.

As for psychiatric illness, I hear what you're saying about public perception and agree that there may be one or two in the Aussie team who would think that it was fair game for sledging. But the matter would be discussed amongst the team before the game, and they would surely come to a collective decision that this is not something about which they want to be sledging him. Think about it - we mock Ricky Ponting for his "Spirit of Cricket" sermonising, but even he must realise that if his team were seen to sledge a bloke about a psychiatric illness, that would be pretty clearly "not cricket".
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I don't think the Aussies would sledge him about his illness as such, but sledges about not being able to stand pressure, that kind of thing... that's a fine line. You could do it to anyone else, but I'm not sure about Trescothick.

Of course, the Aussies might get stuck in two minds what to do and that might work to his benefit. If he was going to play, which I'm sure he's not.
 
four_or_six

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Oh for goodness sake, can none of these guys bat under pressure? Shah, Bell, Bopara, Cook... all out in single figures.
 
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