*Official* Fourth Test at Headingley

[howardj]

Both have to play. I'd prefer Bing to get a FC game definately, but AUS bowling can't afford to leave him out. Its McGrath 05 all over again..

I violently disagree.

Lee's media boosters are so blind. The guy averages 48 in his last 10 Tests, and has a shocking record in England. Furthermore, the bag he got before the 1st against the England Second XI was taken after they were 1 for 200+. Then, on top of all that, he has played one FC game since December, and hasn't played since tearing a muscle.

The guy's spin doctors are amazing on insisting that he is some sort of walk up start, even if he can prove his fitness.

 

[Top_Cat]

I violently disagree.

Lee's media boosters are so blind. The guy averages 48 in his last 10 Tests, and has a shocking record in England. Furthermore, the bag he got before the 1st against the England Second XI was taken after they were 1 for 200+. Then, on top of all that, he has played one FC game since December, and hasn't played since tearing a muscle.

The guy's spin doctors are amazing on insisting that he is some sort of walk up start, even if he can prove his fitness.

God, so AWTA. Comparing him to McGrath is crazy.

Forget the stats, Lee needs to be bowling his balls off to be effective, anything short and he's generally pretty rank. Expecting him to walk into the middle of a Test series and start dominating with no cricket under his belt? No chance.

 

[JBH001]

Yeah, agreed. The whole thing is a little too messianic.

Better if they played a fit St. Paul, i.e. Clark.

 

[zaremba]

Lee really shouldn't play before bowling in a FC game imo. If he gets the nod over Clark, the latter has probably played his last test.

So true. Headingley may not be quite the seamer's paradise of old but even so you'd pick a Stuart Clark, if one were available, every day of the week there. He's been bowling okay from the limited amount we've seen of him, and from a purely parochial view I'd be ****ing delighted if the Aussie selectors were to overlook him again.

 

[Johnners]

I was all for Lee getting a run in the first test match if he made it through the FC warm-ups allright, but there's absolutely no way he should be brought back into the side now mid-series without having proved his fitness.

 

[aussie]

God, so AWTA. Comparing him to McGrath is crazy..

I was comparing the circumstances of McGrath's injury after Egbaston to his recall @ the Oval, Very similar. The bowling attacks needs Lee ATM.

Forget the stats, Lee needs to be bowling his balls off to be effective, anything short and he's generally pretty rank. Expecting him to walk into the middle of a Test series and start dominating with no cricket under his belt? No chance.

He surely cant be worse than Johnsons ATS.

 

[aussie]

I violently disagree.

Lee's media boosters are so blind. The guy averages 48 in his last 10 Tests,

His poor bowling record during this period needs to take into proper context.

was due to the fact that in IND he got injured & had is personal issues going into that tour. Thus that affected in in home test vs NZ & SA. Lee has lost nothing that warm-up gamed proved that.

and has a shocking record in England.

Well surely Lee is a far better bowler than 2001 & 2005 versions of himself. To think that if he plays now, that he would bowl like that again, is way OTT.

Furthermore, the bag he got before the 1st against the England Second XI was taken after they were 1 for 200+.

Am that ENG second XI was fairly competitve, it wasn't a garbage team like Northants. Plus how can how discredit his bowling performance just because the wickets came after the score was 1 for 200+?

I would think surely, that told us that Lee of WI 08 is back & he has reverse swing on smash. Thus if similar circumstances occur in the Ashes, Ponting knows who to throw the ball to.

Especially on a 5th day wicket, where by Lee bowling verse swing @ 90mph would be far more deadly than Haurtiz aiming at rough patches

Then, on top of all that, he has played one FC game since December, and hasn't played since tearing a muscle.

The guy's spin doctors are amazing on insisting that he is some sort of walk up start, even if he can prove his fitness.

Sensing a bit of double standard here. There was no issue with Watson the EVEN more injured one, being picked as an "all-rounder" for the last test, when it is clear his bowling isn't up to scratch. Based on performance againts a real scrubby Northants XI. But there is an issue with Lee coming straight back in?.

As i just told T_C, its the same injury situation with McGrath in 05. Aus couldn't wait to get Pigeon back then, whats the difference now with Lee?.


I dont understand this. I would prefer for him to get a warm-up as well, but his body aint exactly a twig. For a professional his career injury record is very moderate, so if the physio's do their job a say he can play, he has to play at headingley, i dont see how you can not pick Lee ATS.

 

[Top_Cat]

He surely cant be worse than Johnsons ATS.

One can never know how he's going to go for sure but I'd back the guy who's been bowling for the whole series and in the warm-ups as opposed to the other guy who, coming off a long lay-off, got injured in another warm-up and hasn't played since.

 

[Top_Cat]

As i just told T_C, its the same injury situation with McGrath in 05. Aus couldn't wait to get Pigeon back then, whats the difference now with Lee?.

Massive, massive difference. McGrath was rushed back in because he was pivotal to winning the series and is an all-time great, not to mention had form behind him. Lee is well away from any of those things as it stands.

 

[pup11]

Massive, massive difference. McGrath was rushed back in because he was pivotal to winning the series and is an all-time great, not to mention had form behind him. Lee is well away from any of those things as it stands.

AWTA...

Its very silly to compare a bloke like McGarth with Lee, Lee is not even half the bowler McGrath was, and not to mention Lee has massive fitness issues over his head, so it would be nothing short of madness to pick him over any of the current quicks who are there in the squad, and that too in such an important game.

Though my fear is Lee won't take no for an answer lying down as easily as Clark has done so far in this series, he pretty outspoken, and given his stature in the side, i think he would definitely push for his selection in the 4th test, and rightly or wrongly, it won't surprise me to see him play at Headingley.

 

[four_or_six]

I'd be shocked if the selectors brought back Lee without a warm-up game, just when Johnson has finally started to get going.

 

[Prince EWS]

Reckon the only change that has any chance of happening is Lee in for Siddle, TBH.

 

[Burgey]

Reckon the only change that has any chance of happening is Lee in for Siddle, TBH.

As I posted previously, if Lee plays ahead of Clark in this Test, Clark's done and dusted as a test bowler.

It would be bizarre to pick Lee given his lack of bowling. He's gone around the park in England on two previous tours; he'll come in and try too hard like he always does when he comes back from injury and will bowl two lengths and get carted; they're playing on a typical English postage stamp - there's no room for error here, especially being one-down with two to play; the attack has failed to contain runs, and Lee's an out-and-out agggressive bowler who can spray it around, just like Johnson; Clark offers consistency in his method and would contrast with Johnson and Hilf, as well as get extra bounce.

Apart from that, Lee would be a great pick for this game.

Edit: But you're right, I think they'll do it too.

 

[four_or_six]

If Clarke isn't fit, is it a straight swap bringing Hughes back in, or do they push Haddin up to six and use MacDonald? I'd personally go for the latter... but then again, I would have gone for that right at the beginning.

 

[Ikki]

I see, when the stats fail you just talk **** to cover your arguments...

How have the stats failed? Have you given a gander to Swann's figures this series? I encourage you to. Ironic that you even consider stats here; weren't you ignoring them when we were talking about Flintoff before?

Swann has bowled poorly in two Tests so far, would agree. But guess what? Three bowlers in this series have had what you could consider to be a matchwinning contribution. Know what their names are? James Anderson. Andrew Flintoff. And yes, Graeme Swann. Yet somehow we "arsed" our way to victory. Give me a ****ing break.

There was a big debate in another thread if you recall about how good Swann is. He isn't that good and by the two good sides he has faced in his career he has been belted. You GMAFB. Having 1 decent test and two absolutely rank bad ones doesn't mean a bowler is doing OK. He's averaging almost 60 with the ball FFS.

But its not that he has bowled well, and been played well, its that he has bowled badly, and has been nowhere near as good as he has been hyped up to be. It may a terrible thing to say of any off-spinner, but Hauritz seems to be better than him.

Amen.

 

[Burgey]

What's more, WTF is Watson doing making comments to the media about whether Lee should play? "In my experience you need a game or two coming back from a side injury".

No doubt you've got ****loads of experience of coming back from injury Shane, but how is it your place to comment on whether a team mate should be considered for selection?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I reckon if T_C was a selector, we'd still have 11 test players instead of 400-odd. Ever advocated a change to the Aussie side in your life? I'm not saying Lee should play btw, just saying that your default post is "Nah, unchanged, they're all doing great."

What's more, WTF is Watson doing making comments to the media about whether Lee should play? "In my experience you need a game or two coming back from a side injury".

No doubt you've got ****loads of experience of coming back from injury Shane, but how is it your place to comment on whether a team mate should be considered for selection?

What if he was asked by the media? Sheesh. Sure he could say "No comment" but why? He's just giving a small comment in regard to his opinion. People really are fickle sometimes.

 

[four_or_six]

What's more, WTF is Watson doing making comments to the media about whether Lee should play? "In my experience you need a game or two coming back from a side injury".

No doubt you've got ****loads of experience of coming back from injury Shane, but how is it your place to comment on whether a team mate should be considered for selection?

Did you see the press conference? Cause he didn't say it like it's been reported imo. You can't hear the question because of the low volume, but his answer is perfectly sensible and normal.

 

[NUFAN]

Going on record to say that this Test will be one of the best Test matches this century.

 

[B.Scott4England]

How's weather looking int Yorkshire today?