*Official Third Test at Edgbaston

[GIMH]

Hussey's recent standards are the reason why he may not find a place in the team in the next Test - that's precisely my point.



I'll respond to this part of the post as I wish to move on from this argument but Anderson is no way near "the best bowler currently" as some of the English comms have been arguing. He has had 4 series in about 16 averaging under 30. In his last 5, including this series, he only averaged under 30 once against WIndies. Even in this series, he is in no great shakes. Do you think such a bowler would get these many chances in Australia? He's your best bowler and he could really only find a place as our 3rd.

Have you watched Anderson bowl against anyone other than Australia? It seems that all you can do is refer to his stats and when he averages under 30. Did you watch him against South Africa last summer? I don't really care about his stats mate, the whole world has had their eyes open to the fact that over the last 18 months he has improved so so much as a bowler, and we've recognised this by watching him bowl, not from looking at scorecards. He's not the same bowler you saw in the 06-07 Ashes, probably the last time you watched him prior to this.

As for "do you think such a bowler would get these many chances in Australia?" What do you mean by chances - chances to play in the team, or chances as in the wickets he's been taking?

I'd say he's been the best bowler in the series so far, but you could make a case for Hilfenhaus or Flintoff against him. And sure, prior to the series you would have picked Johnson ahead of him? But Siddle? Give me a ****ing break.

His tail is up, the conditions are helping him, but he is no Waqar Younis. The point was that our batsmen are too tentative against some of the English bowlers. You can live in dream-land, but Anderson is simply a good bowler. If the Aussie batsman are failing against this level of bowler, then they should simply lose their place.

Who said he is Waqar Younis? The conditions are helping him yeah, remind me how Mitchell Johnson is getting on in these helpful conditions? You live in a crazy world where no player should be able to get the better of an Australian. It's not 2007 anymore, move on. Anderson, on his day (and I would agree that he still needs to work on being better when it's not his day, even if he had made huge strides in that area) can get any batsman in the world out. I don't think many people would dispute that. Now I don't buy into Richard's theory of bowlers being too good for batsmen etc, but that being said I don't think there is a whole lot of shame in being dismissed by the type of bowling your guys were skittled by on Friday.

 

[Uppercut]

I'd say he's been the best bowler in the series so far, but you could make a case for Hilfenhaus or Flintoff against him.

I do actually think Hilfenhaus has been better than him. He hasn't been backed up at all well as Jimmy, and the English have largely played him a bit better (in particular, a lot of Jimmy's wickets at Lord's were very poorly played by the batsmen). I can't remember Hilfenhaus bowling a bad spell though, whereas Jimmy's blown hot and cold.

 

[Ikki]

You may shove your stats, because ever since New Zealand toured in May of last year Jimmy has been awesome. The only Aussie bowler I'd have had over him pre-series was Mitchell Johnson, and that's looking a little iffy to say the very least. He'd absolutely walk into your team.

The Aussie bowlers currently have only played a handful of Tests, geezus christ. Whoosh! Remember something important, would you be saying the same thing had Clark or Lee been in this test? Well, that's the expectation of our new bowlers; to be even better than them and to keep them out. That's the point. If they don't do it, they will be replaced. Would you consider the English bowlers better than Clark or Lee?

Jimmeh's performances, since NZ:

GMAFB

 

[Nate]

Lol @ arguing with ikki. Just let him be, he's probably English anyway.

 

[GIMH]

No, I don't. And yet, for the 10th time this thread, that's not the point. An Aussie seamer is expected to be better than that. We may bring in David Hussey as a #4 for example, but if he isn't lighting up the world and is averaging worse than Collingwood, that does not mean Collingwood would make our side. We have others ready to go on the sidelines who do show the promise of more. Likewise Flintoff as a specialist bowler probably wouldn't be good enough for what we are looking for. Siddle at the moment is inferior to Flintoff, yes, but he is there and is expected to grow into a better bowler. If he doesn't do it, he won't be kept, it's as simple as that.

Flintoff the bowler would walk into any team in the world. Saying "we expect our players to be better than that" is arrogance of the highest order. You're living in a bubble, would love to ask the Aussie selectors about this as they are the only ones who can definitively prove to you how stupid you are being about this.

You may shove your stats, because ever since New Zealand toured in May of last year Jimmy has been awesome. The only Aussie bowler I'd have had over him pre-series was Mitchell Johnson, and that's looking a little iffy to say the very least. He'd absolutely walk into your team.

Haha, why didn't I just say that

 

[four_or_six]

I do actually think Hilfenhaus has been better than him. He hasn't been backed up at all well as Jimmy, and the English have largely played him a bit better (in particular, a lot of Jimmy's wickets at Lord's were very poorly played by the batsmen). I can't remember Hilfenhaus bowling a bad spell though, whereas Jimmy's blown hot and cold.

Hot and cold can sometimes be useful, though. As long as when you're hot, you're really hot, because that can be a match-turning or match-winning performance.

 

[Pigeon]

The Aussie bowlers currently have only played a handful of Tests, geezus christ. Whoosh! Remember something important, would you be saying the same thing had Clark or Lee been in this test? Well, that's the expectation of our new bowlers; to be even better than them and to keep them out. That's the point. If they don't do it, they will be replaced. Would you consider the English bowlers better than Clark or Lee?

Jimmeh's performances, since NZ:

GMAFB

Those numbers only accentuate the argument why he should be playing now. His stats in English conditions have been pretty impressive and the blips have both come overseas in terrible conditions for swing bowling.

 

[GIMH]

The Aussie bowlers currently have only played a handful of Tests, geezus christ. Whoosh! Remember something important, would you be saying the same thing had Clark or Lee been in this test? Well, that's the expectation of our new bowlers; to be even better than them and to keep them out. That's the point. If they don't do it, they will be replaced. Would you consider the English bowlers better than Clark or Lee?

Jimmeh's performances, since NZ:

GMAFB

Haha, no, did you WATCH him bowl FFS?!

 

[Pigeon]

Flintoff the bowler would walk into any team in the world. Saying "we expect our players to be better than that" is arrogance of the highest order. You're living in a bubble, would love to ask the Aussie selectors about this as they are the only ones who can definitively prove to you how stupid you are being about this.



Haha, why didn't I just say that

Perhaps IKKI thinks every Australian pace bowler should be McGrath and every spinner Warne.

 

[Matt79]

Hanging in this series by our fingernails now. Hope we can hold on for a drawer here.

 

[GIMH]

Lol @ arguing with ikki. Just let him be, he's probably English anyway.

I have to do something to kill the pre-match time.

 

[Jewels]

I feel somewhat diminished after reading the posts in this thread over the last 24 hrs

As a newbie I am curious if Richard and Ikki are indeed the same person ?
Do they argue between themselves:

 

[Uppercut]

The Aussie bowlers currently have only played a handful of Tests, geezus christ. Whoosh! Remember something important, would you be saying the same thing had Clark or Lee been in this test? Well, that's the expectation of our new bowlers; to be even better than them and to keep them out. That's the point. If they don't do it, they will be replaced. Would you consider the English bowlers better than Clark or Lee?

Jimmeh's performances, since NZ:

GMAFB

Those stats tell you NOTHING.

James Anderson is considerably better than Clark at the moment, and I'm hesitant to say how he compares to Lee because he's played so little cricket of late. Siddle's a good prospect, Hilfenhaus has been excellent so far this series. But James Anderson is really a very, very good bowler. I don't think I can convince you of that but maybe if you lose the Ashes it'll hit home.

 

[Shaggy Alfresco]

How much could England realistically chase today, do you think?

 

[Matt79]

Hanging in this series by our fingernails now. Hope we can hold on for a drawer here.

Mike Hussey, Watto - Australia is on the phone - they're looking for heroes. Will you take the call?

 

[Ikki]

Have you watched Anderson bowl against anyone other than Australia? It seems that all you can do is refer to his stats and when he averages under 30. Did you watch him against South Africa last summer? I don't really care about his stats mate, the whole world has had their eyes open to the fact that over the last 18 months he has improved so so much as a bowler, and we've recognised this by watching him bowl, not from looking at scorecards. He's not the same bowler you saw in the 06-07 Ashes, probably the last time you watched him prior to this.

Yes, I saw him against S.Africa, India and WIndies. He's fine, he's good, but he is not that good. He has improved, but give me a break.

As for "do you think such a bowler would get these many chances in Australia?" What do you mean by chances - chances to play in the team, or chances as in the wickets he's been taking?

I mean to keep pulling those numbers.

I'd say he's been the best bowler in the series so far, but you could make a case for Hilfenhaus or Flintoff against him. And sure, prior to the series you would have picked Johnson ahead of him? But Siddle? Give me a ****ing break.

I'd say both he and Hilfenhaus have been the best, and Flintoff not far behind. And yet, that's why I have a problem with our bowling line-up. Because neither Jimmy nor Hilfy have bowled remarkably well and that the batting at the same time has hardly been world-class.

And again; Siddle is there for what he could be. He has only played a few tests. He is keeping out Clark and Lee; both who would walk into your side over their current form (last 2-3 years).

Who said he is Waqar Younis? The conditions are helping him yeah, remind me how Mitchell Johnson is getting on in these helpful conditions? You live in a crazy world where no player should be able to get the better of an Australian. It's not 2007 anymore, move on. Anderson, on his day (and I would agree that he still needs to work on being better when it's not his day, even if he had made huge strides in that area) can get any batsman in the world out. I don't think many people would dispute that. Now I don't buy into Richard's theory of bowlers being too good for batsmen etc, but that being said I don't think there is a whole lot of shame in being dismissed by the type of bowling your guys were skittled by on Friday.

You should pay more attention, instead of getting your feelings hurt and responding to me as if I am blowing everything out of proportion.

I said confidence changes players. The confidence Anderson has currently is helping him bowl better and the lack of confidence some of our green batsmen have is contributing to their downfall. Whilst Anderson is pretty good at the moment, he is no way someone like Waqar Younis who even the best, at their best, will fail against. And it has nothing to do with "shame" but the expectations I, and I know many Australians, have of their batting line-up.

 

[social]

Hot and cold can sometimes be useful, though. As long as when you're hot, you're really hot, because that can be a match-turning or match-winning performance.

Sums Jimmy up IMO

Brilliant when it is swinging, average to rank when it's not

 

[jondavluc]

How much could England realistically chase today, do you think?

150-220 somewhere around that depending on how long the Aussies bat for.

 

[four_or_six]

How much could England realistically chase today, do you think?

Hmm... depends on time, and of course the Australians will (quite understandably) slow their overrate down. So assuming we only get 30 overs after tea, we could chase 120 at a stretch. But Australia are more likely to be about 140 ahead by then... Hmm, I reckon 120-140 tops.

 

[pasag]

As I said before Oz batted, IMO it's 50/50

Aus are 2 for -25 and will need to score runs and eat up a lot of the day's play before they can feel safe

If the ball starts doing something in the first session then I have my doubts as to whether they can do it

Yeah, not a lot of hope here. Would love to be proven wrong but the minute there's a little bit of pressure, things go haywire. A team like India or SA would be easy favourites to hang on here but our batting at the moment is **** and a few quick wickets are never far away. It's not even a whole day either, only have to last two sessions assuming the runs are flowing.