*Official Third Test at Edgbaston

[tooextracool]

There's several different variants on it, but it basically implies the same thing - to field first is always wrong.

And in reality, in today's game, and the game that's been being played for the last 30-40 years, batting first is merely something that is adviseable in perhaps 50% of occasions. On perhaps 20% of occasions fielding would be best, and on another 30% it won't make the blindest bit of difference. On such occasions batting first is adviseable not because it'll improve your team's chances, but because those who still swear by obsolete cliches will thus criticise you far less.

I agree with this, although I would suggest that on that 30% that you mention, it would be better to bat first simply because its better to bat when the game is even than when you are looking up at a scaling a mountain along the lines of 600 odd with 400 odd to avoid the follow-on.

 

[tooextracool]

Hypothetical question.

The pitch is greener than green, the sky is overcast. Ponting wins the toss. Does he bowl, or are the scars of four years ago too much to bear?

I'm not trolling, I genuinely wonder whether Ponting would even dream of bowling first here after last time.

Not unless the pitch is a serious green top and almost certainly not if blow-house ends up twisting his ankle on a rugby ball on the morning of the test match.

 

[aussie]

Is this ironic?

No sir. AUS strenght is in there pace ranks. With all the bickering & idiotic notions the selection panel has thrown around over the last 18 months to avoid it. The sooner AUS play 4 seamers the better the bowling attack will be.

 

[tooextracool]

Indeed, and fortunately, the best thing that could have happened for England this series was for Hauritz to take a handful of wickets in the first test of the series in a game which England would not go on to lose. Now Hauritz has booked himself a spot for presumably the rest of the series and England are better for it.

 

[pup11]

Does Ponting ever choose to bowl first these days? Unless it's May I reckon it's always bat first in England, or pretty much anywhere to be honest. Ian Chappell's predictions regarding the Australian squad and it's lack of options of come pretty much true, difficult to see how the Aussies are going to turn things around. Serves 'em right for leaving out Hodge...again. Clarke should move upto 4, they need to get Ponting and Clarke in together. Watson to come in for North, Clark's just got to come in, probably for Johnson who isn't showing any signs of improvement.

Reckon Bell should bat at 3, Bopara 4. Bopara just looks a natural number 4, in the same way Pietersen looks a natural no. 5 (IMO). Promote Swann ahead of Broad, he's clearly the better bat.

No matter what the format of the game might be, Ponting believes in winning the toss and batting first, and he tends to do this even in conditions where there might be some help from the pitch for the fast-bowlers, one more reason why his decision to bowl first at Edgbaston was shocking and surprising at the same time.

Anyways, can't see Clarke moving up to no.4, and neither should that happen, Clarke has been doing well at no.5, and that's where he should stay, and Hussey too has done tremendously well batting at no.4, for most of his career in Australian colors, and since faith in him is being shown by the think-tank, then he should also be allowed to bat in his usual position.

 

[TT Boy]

Do England really have the bowlers to exploit a proper old-fashioned greentop? There was a time not that long ago when we would encounter that kind of pitch with some regularity at Headingley, and we'd pick a "horse for the course" like Steve Watkin who'd know exactly how to extract the maximum from it. I'm not sure any of our current bowlers really have that ability. They all tend to try either to swing it or to bang it in; no-one looks to bowl seamers on a full length.

Whereas Australia have Stuart Clark who fits the bill perfectly. I predict a very big performance from him.

No.

Said it before the start of the series, Australia don’t win on flat wickets. A tinge of green and Siddle and Clark will run amok.

Wicket despite being undercover is not the concern; it is the outfield which is the problem. Surface should play like it has all county season, slow, not much life and hard work for the bowlers.

 

[four_or_six]

Why were some of the Aussies training in weird black kit today? Must say it always bugs me when half of them are in the yellow and half the blue, as I've been trying to figure out the pattern. But this is just even more confusing!

 

[Woodster]

I think it's most people's instinctive prejudice against playing negatively that begats them to believe said attitude fails more often than succeeds. Same way Australians' instinctive prejudice against the all-seam attacks of West Indies lead them to believe - wrongly - that West Indian batsmen were all poor players of spin in the all-seam days, and that eventually Australia's spinners brought them down.

In reality it has a good chance of succeeding if you play it right, and it has a good chance of failing if you play it wrong, same as any other gameplan. There are times to play it and times not to. The final Test of a series where you're leading 1-0 would be the right time. The Third Test of a five-match series, regardless of the scoreline, is the wrong time.

There are perhaps occasions and stages of a Test match where a conservative and more watchful approach is required, yet that is dependant upon so many varying factors. A premeditated mindset of 'we must draw this game come what may' is a dangerous school of thought, when you are leading a series you must always think of winning the next game, not settling for what you have. Of course should you find yourself in a strong position there is no harm in a conservative declaration.

 

[kevinpietersen]

Come on england!!!!!

 

[fredfertang]

Has Bell passed his fitness test after his "McGrath moment" ?

 

[Richard]

Hilarious as that is, I'm none the wiser as to what you actually mean.

 

[Richard]

Unless it's May I reckon it's always bat first in England, or pretty much anywhere to be honest.

An overcast day and a greentop is an overcast day and a greentop in May or August. Under both circumstances it's generally wisest to field first.

In fact under any circumstances where you think batting is going to get easier as the day progresses, you should ALWAYS field first, really. If you think it's going to get more difficult as the match goes on without ever really getting easier, always bat first. If you think things aren't going to change all that much, bat first to avoid the criticism.

Reckon Bell should bat at 3, Bopara 4. Bopara just looks a natural number 4, in the same way Pietersen looks a natural no. 5 (IMO).

And Bell eminently does not look a natural number-three. Wish he'd never, ever batted there.

 

[Richard]

Do England really have the bowlers to exploit a proper old-fashioned greentop?

No doubts at all that this attack is lesser with a greentop than many of the recent and not-so-recent past. However, pretty much any seam bowler will prefer green to brown.

The question is, are Australia's bowlers better than England's with a greentop? I'd say yes, probably, but I'd also say they're better on a non-seamer, and with Johnson misfiring so diabolically and Siddle more poor than good so far, that's absolutely not true.

 

[JimmyGS]

Must say it always bugs me when half of them are in the yellow and half the blue, as I've been trying to figure out the pattern. But this is just even more confusing!

We have 2 training strips for u19s as well. There's no pattern, people just wear what they feel like or whatever's not in the wash. It could be the same for them.

Have no idea what that black stuff is though.

 

[four_or_six]

We have 2 training strips for u19s as well. There's no pattern, people just wear what they feel like or whatever's not in the wash. It could be the same for them.

Have no idea what that black stuff is though.

Cool... that would explain why I can't figure it out.

 

[Burgey]

No doubts at all that this attack is lesser with a greentop than many of the recent and not-so-recent past. However, pretty much any seam bowler will prefer green to brown.

The question is, are Australia's bowlers better than England's with a greentop? I'd say yes, probably, but I'd also say they're better on a non-seamer, and with Johnson misfiring so diabolically and Siddle more poor than good so far, that's absolutely not true.

Assuming Australia have the same attack as the first two tests (by no means a given), they would benefit enormously from a green top imo.

They're still very raw, all things considered, and it's probably no coincidence they've performed best when there was something in the wicket for them in SA.

 

[Burgey]

Why were some of the Aussies training in weird black kit today? Must say it always bugs me when half of them are in the yellow and half the blue, as I've been trying to figure out the pattern. But this is just even more confusing!

Fosie takes on the big issues

 

[four_or_six]

Fosie takes on the big issues

It's been annoying me for ages. Why don't they all wear the same shirts? It just... bugs me.

 

[Uppercut]

If you win the toss, bat first. If you have any doubts, bat.

*Obsolete.

Quite right it's obsolete, though. On today's pitches, it should be amended to "If you win the toss, bat." Glad we cleared that up.

I'm with Richard here. Pitches aren't deteriorating these days, so surely each case should be judged purely on its merit. If conditions are better for bowling that they will be all match then of course you should have a bowl.

 

[Uppercut]

No doubts at all that this attack is lesser with a greentop than many of the recent and not-so-recent past. However, pretty much any seam bowler will prefer green to brown.

The question is, are Australia's bowlers better than England's with a greentop? I'd say yes, probably, but I'd also say they're better on a non-seamer, and with Johnson misfiring so diabolically and Siddle more poor than good so far, that's absolutely not true.

I'd say England are better on a flat deck with heavy cloud cover, and on a fast turner. Australia are better on flat pitches with plenty of sunshine or on green seamers.

No matter though, they're pretty close and it all comes down solely to who bowls better on the day.