*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

[fredfertang]

Which leads me onto a rant about another dodgily decided court case, know it isn't really the right thread, but thought the defendants in the case where they were convicted of stealing someones lottery ticket and cashing it got away with a very lenient sentence.

I missed that one - have you got a link to the story?

 

[sledger]

I missed that one - have you got a link to the story?

Yeah here it is.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Wiltshire | Lottery fraudster to pay £15,000

Rightly convicted, but feel it's a bit much that they only have to pay back half of what they procured, I mean, from the defendants point of view, they've just picked up a free £15k.

 

[Ikki]

Yes and that fairy tale is ludicrous. Anyone not ridiculously biased can see through it.

Anyone apart from a distinguished Judge and a jury?

Those were the facts of the case as established by both parties. Whether you agree is not the contention.

I couldn't give a crap what the judge and jury ruled. Any fabricated tosh would have got him off because of all his pals being involved and who he is, and that's exactly what happened. There's no comparison at all with Joey Barton. The last paragraph is just hilarious and proves it's a waste of time arguing this any further.

There is no comparison? A rich and well-known footballer got his dues from the same judge. The difference is Barton has no defense and his character in general is up for question.

The whole act itself was so un-Gerrardlike, that it's with everything else that it practically falls into place and makes sense.

Your tirade against the man leaves one to assume you have a little more against him than you're letting on. What that may be, well, I don't care to entertain.

 

[Ikki]

In all seriousness it sounds as if Gerrard was the instigator, so one wonders why the others didn't contest the charges either? Perhaps one of our legal minds could shed some light as to the possible reasons? Aside from the obvious "being able to afford better legal representation", obv...

Because Gerrard wasn't the instigator and it was held as such. I may not be the best legal mind here but I am finishing my law degree, if that counts.

Some good insider info from someone who would know the details of the marriage of a Liverpool couple and the city's gang working better than anyone else.

Huh? I am not saying I have insider info, but the rumour in question is rather ridiculous and yet to be proven to any, even, half-serious measure.

 

[sledger]

The whole act itself was so un-Gerrardlike

I think this is a wholly subjective and dubious point tbh. Throughout the earlier stages of his career he often demonstrated a very thuggish attitude whilst on the pitch, often showing needless over the top aggression. Of course this was in a sporting arena, and people do get carried away so this isn't to say he definitely is a thug off the pitch, but it suggests that it would be foolish to rule out the possibility.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Anyone apart from a distinguished Judge and a jury?

Those were the facts of the case as established by both parties. Whether you agree is not the contention.



There is no comparison? A rich and well-known footballer got his dues from the same judge. The difference is Barton has no defense and his character in general is up for question.

Joey Barton is unpopular, has a past record and doesn't have a load of his fans on the jury and as the judge. That's why there's no comparison.

There are plenty of examples out there of rich people getting off despite being guilty. This is just another one.

 

[Ikki]

I think this is a wholly subjective and dubious point tbh. Throughout the earlier stages of his career he often demonstrated a very thuggish attitude whilst on the pitch, often showing needless over the top aggression. Of course this was in a sporting arena, and people do get carried away so this isn't to say he definitely is a thug off the pitch, but it suggests that it would be foolish to rule out the possibility.

It actually isn't all that subjective. Why do you think people are brought in as character references? Even the prosecution itself admitted that the man commanded respect and that the act itself was unlike him - yet they contended he had his moment of madness nonetheless.

Gerrard was hardly thuggish in the beginning of his career and was merely a rough defender. Nothing like a Keane, for example, who purposely went into break legs. One must remember he was a right-back and then a defensive-midfielder - tackles fly in. He had one infamous tackle in the derby but that's about it for his career.

Your take on him is a stretch to say the least.

 

[Agent TBY]

The whole act itself was so un-Gerrardlike

George Boateng disagrees.

 

[Scaly piscine]

It actually isn't all that subjective. Why do you think people are brought in as character references? Even the prosecution itself admitted that the man commanded respect and that the act itself was unlike him - yet they contended he had his moment of madness nonetheless.

Gerrard was hardly thuggish in the beginning of his career and was merely a rough defender. Nothing like a Keane, for example, who purposely went into break legs. One must remember he was a right-back and then a defensive-midfielder - tackles fly in. He had one infamous tackle in the derby but that's about it for his career.

Your take on him is a stretch to say the least.

So what are you? His mother? Father? Uncle?

 

[Ikki]

Joey Barton is unpopular, has a past record and doesn't have a load of his fans on the jury and as the judge. That's why there's no comparison.

That's precisely the reason why I brought such an example. Gerrard is well-liked and he even has an MBE. So what's the difference between the two? Their behaviour. Hence, why the judge is more likely to buy Gerrard's story and the more likely it'd be truthful.

There are plenty of examples out there of rich people getting off despite being guilty. This is just another one.

This was not exactly a big case where an amazing defense needed to be put together. It was concluded pretty quickly. The facts, and the law, are clear. Your imagination running wild is irrelevant in the face of them.

 

[sledger]

It actually isn't all that subjective. Why do you think people are brought in as character references? Even the prosecution itself admitted that the man commanded respect and that the act itself was unlike him - yet they contended he had his moment of madness nonetheless.

Gerrard was hardly thuggish in the beginning of his career and was merely a rough defender. Nothing like a Keane, for example, who purposely went into break legs. One must remember he was a right-back and then a defensive-midfielder - tackles fly in. He had one infamous tackle in the derby but that's about it for his career.

Your take on him is a stretch to say the least.

I can think of numerous bad Gerrard tackles tbh, one in the Community Shield against Arsenal particularly lingers in the memory.

Whether or not the act was unlike him is also largely irrelevant, if he did it, which he obviously did, he should be held accountable. I am also a law student, so I know the ins and outs of "self defence", and will concede that such a defence could be used validly here, but the fact that it has suceeded in such circumstances just bewilders me. If we look at the facts alone, a guy, in a group of six, has landed several punches on a single other guy, self defence? My foot.

And furthermore, you can't seriously tell me that you think an every day guy like me or you would get off using the same defence to the same charge?

 

[Ikki]

George Boateng disagrees.

Bad tackles happen, and often, in football. Gerrard being a physical and violent individual is not really up for debate. Even in the realm of English football.

So what are you? His mother? Father? Uncle?

What are you? His enemy? His nemesis? His executioner?

 

[GIMH]

In other news (well sort of) the whites played a Liverpool XI at PP tonight. I decided I'm not going to any preseason games this season due to finances, and I have the kids tonight anyway, well anyway, gerrard played, scored, we drew 2-2. Pretty much a team of no-marks aside from Gerrard though. chris Shuker on the scoresheet for us though, promising, might have the old Shukes back, which means my Greenacre-shaped void could be partially filled

 

[Ikki]

I can think of numerous bad Gerrard tackles tbh, one in the Community Shield against Arsenal particularly lingers in the memory.

Puh-lease...

If we were talking about Robbie Savage or Roy Keane, I'd kinda buy it. But Gerrard? You're having a laugh. Bad tackles happen; it's the nature of the game. Gerrard having the intent to purposely hurt a player, or like Keane, end someone's career...never happened.

Whether or not the act was unlike him is also largely irrelevant, if he did it, which he obviously did, he should be held accountable.

On the facts, he clearly didn't and was held not to have. So your continuing the shame-game just shows it clearly does matter to you whether you like him or not.

I am also a law student, so I know the ins and outs of "self defence", and will concede that such a defence could be used validly here, but the fact that it has suceeded in such circumstances just bewilders me. If we look at the facts alone, a guy, in a group of six, has landed several punches on a single other guy, self defence? My foot.

If that's your gripe you've really got a poor reason against the decision. Whether you are 100-1 is almost irrelevant if the person in question happens to fall into your lap. Gerrard's reaction was deemed to have been proportional and reasonable, and these tests are not done willy-nilly.

And furthermore, you can't seriously tell me that you think an every day guy like me or you would get off using the same defence to the same charge?

I can't seriously believe you'd contend otherwise. When there are already 6 parties admitting to affray, which prosecutor in his right mind would try a nobody and waste tax payer money on such a charge? It'd have never come to this.

 

[Uppercut]

Puh-lease...

If we were talking about Robbie Savage or Roy Keane, I'd kinda buy it. But Gerrard? You're having a laugh. Bad tackles happen; it's the nature of the game. Gerrard having the intent to purposely hurt a player, or like Keane, end someone's career...never happened.

Robbie Savage? The man who's never been sent off in his career, bar once playing for Wales when the ref gave him a smeller?

 

[Ikki]

Robbie Savage? The man who's never been sent off in his career, bar once playing for Wales when the ref gave him a smeller?

Only once? That's a surprise. Certainly one of the dirtiest and least liked EPL players in the last decade.

EDIT: Twice. But almost 90 yellow cards - a record.

Robbie Savage Wiki:

Savage's style as a midfield player is all-action and energetic, and he regularly collects yellow cards, holding the dubious distinction of being awarded the most yellow cards of any Premiership player in the league's history - almost 90.[23] A controversial player, Savage is loved by fans of teams he plays for and hated by many others, in part due to his style of play and in part due to several controversial incidents he has been involved in. Fans of Aston Villa, Derby, Tottenham, West Ham and Arsenal have accused him of simulation, whether to win a set play or to get an opponent red carded. [24]

Savage has, however, only been sent off twice in his career: Once during an international game for the Welsh national team, and once during a Premier League game for Blackburn. He received his first-ever red card when he was sent off in Wales' World Cup qualification match against Northern Ireland in September 2004 for reacting to a foul on him by midfielder Michael Hughes. Both Hughes and Savage were sent off, but, on later review, the punishment of Savage seemed harsh to some. Savage was ridiculed for threatening to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights over the decision. His once-impressive statistic of never being sent off in a Premiership match ended on 18 March 2006 when he was dismissed against Middlesbrough F.C. for two bookable offences. Both were controversial - the first for a challenge on George Boateng where he appeared to take the ball, and the second for handball when it seemed unintentional. Savage later admitted that he was probably due a controversial sending off because he had escaped punishment for illegal challenges in the past.

One famous example of his eccentric behaviour was while he played for Leicester. In an incident to become known as "Poogate" he used the referee's toilet before a game, claiming he had an upset stomach due to antibiotics he was on at the time. The Football Association charged him and he was fined £10,000, a decision that he appealed against, but lost. Leicester fined him two weeks' wages for the incident.[25] [26]

In his first season for Leicester, in the final minute of a league game between rivals Leicester and Derby at Pride Park, Savage dived in the penalty area. Leicester were awarded the penalty, which was converted, and meant they won the game 3-2. Savage's blatant dive, his hopeful look at the referee and his aggressive fist-pumping celebration in front of the home fans resulted in a torrent of abuse from the fans and in Savage being chased across the pitch by incensed Derby players, two of whom were booked. Derby fans regularly booed, jeered and abused Savage whenever he played against them, and when he became a Derby player in January 2008, he was treated with a mixture of hostility and indifference, partly over the incident, and partly over his average form. With the appointment of the club's new manager, Nigel Clough, in 2009, his performances improved to the extent that he has become a fan-favourite and he has largely been forgiven for the incident.[27] [28] [29]

Savage is also famous for an incident at Villa Park, while playing for Birmingham City. After a tackle on him by Dion Dublin, a confrontation between the two and several other players occurred before Dion Dublin headbutted Robbie Savage. Dublin was sent off by referee Mark Halsey as result.[30]

During a match against Newcastle United in August 2003, the referee Matt Messias swung his arm out and accidentally hit Savage in the face as Savage was running behind him.[31] Savage went down to the floor holding his face and Messias called a halt to the game. Messias looked down to check Savage's condition, and Newcastle striker Alan Shearer pulled the red card out of Messias' pocket and showed it to the referee as a joke. Savage shortly got back up on his feet and had sustained no injuries, but fans, players and referees alike took much delight in this comical incident. It has been shown many times on Soccer AM as have many other recordings of Savage being hit in the face by the ball or an arm. One particularly memorable incident occurred at Arsenal's former ground, Highbury, when a ball kicked by Robert Pirès struck Savage in the face, to the delight and loud cheers of the home fans.

 

[GIMH]

I don't think he was dirty; i think the fact that he was so dislikeable just makes it seem that he should have been.

 

[Ikki]

I don't think he was dirty; i think the fact that he was so dislikeable just makes it seem that he should have been.

Almost 90 yellow cards - EPL record - suggest he was pretty dirty. Just smart enough not to get lots of reds.

 

[GIMH]

well yeah, but it depends what you class as dirty. I mean, my hero, Chris Greenacre, was as dirty as you like, I sit front row behind the goal and used to see him giving the keepers' ankles a good working over at corners. that's dirty. but it's not Roy Keane dirty, which is the implication that springs to mind when the word is generally used in a footballing context. Savage wasn't Keane dirty.

I bet a few of those cards were for time-wasting & dissent as well

 

[BoyBrumby]

Because Gerrard wasn't the instigator and it was held as such. I may not be the best legal mind here but I am finishing my law degree, if that counts.

Perhaps not the instigator of the ruckus, as that was apparently his mate John Doran, but by his own admission he threw three punches under the mistaken belief he was being attacked.

Seems pretty thin at best to me, but there it is.