IPL hurting the international game

[aussie]

What was the mistake ?

The MCC not creating ICC as governing body, after the calamity Packer caused. Of course you could say its a bit of hindsight thinking, since 30 years ago who would thought T20s would come about.

But regardless, its criminal & a utter disrespect to this sport. That the governing body has been in so much shambles for so many years.

 

[Sanz]

The MCC not creating ICC as governing body, after the calamity Packer caused. Of course you could say its a bit of hindsight thinking, since 30 years ago who would thought T20s would come about.

Calamity ? I did not see any casualty out of it, if there was one.

But regardless, its criminal & a utter disrespect to this sport. That the governing body has been in so much shambles for so many years.

Disrespectful, I can understand but 'Criminal' ? Dont go overboard with your fancy thoughts. Please do not tell me that you are not going to leave a government job for a lucrative private job. Not to forget that Cricket Boards aren't even government organizations.

 

[aussie]

Calamity ? I did not see any casualty out of it, if there was one.

The Calamity in 79 was the best players from all the major nations, leaving for Packer because of the financial benefits. Although that was understandable ATT, MCC since then probably should have secured the game by creating an autocratic ICC. So that if another financial tycoon wanted to get flex his muscle, he couldn't create calamity in the game again.

But they didn't and now with the explosion of T20s & the BCCI now the unsactioned big dawg in cricket. You know the 411 ATM.

Disrespectful, I can understand but 'Criminal' ? Dont go overboard with your fancy thoughts. Please do not tell me that you are not going to leave a government job for a lucrative private job. Not to forget that Cricket Boards aren't even government organizations.

Haa "fancy thoughts", good one.

I dont see the relevance in your "leaving a govt jo for a private one comparison". But FIFA has been a solid governing body in football for decades, and has never had any of crazy problems that cricket has had.

How is it not criminal when lesser teams like NZ & PAK lost their best players stupidly for two years, the problems the WI have currently. Plus the lack of control over international scheduling, which has been causing player burnout for a years now (even if the players may be fit enough to handle it).??

I don't know how its going to be done, but ICC needs to revamped ASAP.

 

[marc71178]

The Calamity in 79 was the best players from all the major nations, leaving for Packer because of the financial benefits. Although that was understandable ATT, MCC since then probably should have secured the game by creating an autocratic ICC. So that if another financial tycoon wanted to get flex his muscle, he couldn't create calamity in the game again.

Not a calamity for the people without whom the game wouldn't exist getting their just rewards.

And how exactly would this autocratic ICC actually stop any so-called rebel tournaments?

 

[Smudge]

Absolutely. Tell that to Chatfield too who, If you believe the rumors, has been available for mowing your lawn. That's what his country has done for him after he almost lost his life playing cricket for his country.

What else was his country supposed to do? The only player genuinely making decent money from cricket in the 1980s in NZ was Hadlee, with Crowe's star slowly starting to rise and capturing endorsement money. NZC, quite simply, wasn't getting the income they do today.

Those guys were simply everyday blokes - some like Snedden had a university degree (all self-earned) under their belt and went on to a career in law (then sports admin), others like Rutherford chose a career in wagering operations, and others - like Chatfield, a very down-to-earth and almost reclusive man, chose courier driving, followed by taxi driving and lawnmowing. It was his choice to come back and play cricket after he was felled by Lever and I'm not sure why NZ Cricket should have been "doing" something for him just because of that.

Chatfield played in a different era - I have no idea what relevance he has to this discussion.

 

[Sanz]

What else was his country supposed to do? The only player genuinely making decent money from cricket in the 1980s in NZ was Hadlee, with Crowe's star slowly starting to rise and capturing endorsement money. NZC, quite simply, wasn't getting the income they do today.

Those guys were simply everyday blokes - some like Snedden had a university degree (all self-earned) under their belt and went on to a career in law (then sports admin), others like Rutherford chose a career in wagering operations, and others - like Chatfield, a very down-to-earth and almost reclusive man, chose courier driving, followed by taxi driving and lawnmowing. It was his choice to come back and play cricket after he was felled by Lever and I'm not sure why NZ Cricket should have been "doing" something for him just because of that.

Chatfield played in a different era - I have no idea what relevance he has to this discussion.

I hope you are not suggesting that ex players have no role to play in NZ cricket.

Yes Chatfield is a down to earth and perhaps the most reclusive player ever to play cricket, but he would definately be more useful in the matters related to cricket than driving cab . Aother point I was trying to make is he gave his most valuable years to NZ Cricket or for his country (as some people would like to argue) and yet he got nothing in return from his country, no retirement benefits, no Thank you and most probably not enough respect either I guess.

Yes NZC didn't have much money then, But now that they have money, what do they do for cricketers who spent valuable years of their life playing cricket for their country. I am fine if they can't or don't want to engage him in anyway but at the same time I dont want current players to be called un-patriotic for looking out what is best for them and their family. And mind you I am not a supporter of IPL.

 

[Sanz]

FIFA has been a solid governing body in football for decades, and has never had any of crazy problems that cricket has had.

Cricket is unique from other sports, The duration of the games is much longer than any other sport, The scheduling is different. How many International series are organized and scheduled by FIFA every year ? And now please compare that to ICC 10 year Test plan for every year + ODI series + T20 series.

 

[Sanz]

How is it not criminal when lesser teams like NZ & PAK lost their best players stupidly for two years, the problems the WI have currently. Plus the lack of control over international scheduling, which has been causing player burnout for a years now (even if the players may be fit enough to handle it).??

I don't know how its going to be done, but ICC needs to revamped ASAP.

ICC needs to create a window for T20/IPL like tournament and that's the best option right now. And no it is not criminal to play/participate in a tournament which gives you a better financial security. Anyone, including you, would do the same in similar circumstances.

 

[Smudge]

I hope you are not suggesting that ex players have no role to play in NZ cricket.

And comments like THIS remind me why I don't bother debating with you. I won't be back to this thread.

 

[Sanz]

And comments like THIS remind me why I don't bother debating with you. I won't be back to this thread.

I dont think I said or at least meant anything offensive or outrageous that would make you withdraw from the thread itself. If it did, then my apologies for offending you.

 

[four_or_six]

There is not near enough money in cricket to ensure a living for all international cricketers for much longer than the duration of their careers, let alone enough money for all professional cricketers.

You can't blame them for wanting to get money. But why should they need enough to last them their whole lives? Surely once they've finished playing cricket they can get another job, retrain, whatever... just like the rest of us would have to if we lost our jobs without making it to the top of our careers, because most people lose their jobs at some point in their career.

 

[silentstriker]

You can't blame them for wanting to get money. But why should they need enough to last them their whole lives? Surely once they've finished playing cricket they can get another job, retrain, whatever... just like the rest of us would have to if we lost our jobs without making it to the top of our careers, because most people lose their jobs at some point in their career.

It's not the same. Being that good not only does it require uncommon dedication to a skill that has no use after your thirties, but you have 0 experience to fall back on in the corporate world just as everyone else hits the age where they start earning the big bucks.

Coming from countries from the subcontinent, your age plays a huge role in the jobs you get. Very few will hire a late thirties guy with zero years of experience at a real job. So if a chance comes up to secure their future a little bit, it would be foolish to put your country first. Your country is not going to pay the bills when you're 45.

 

[four_or_six]

It's not the same. Being that good not only does it require uncommon dedication to a skill that has no use after your thirties, but you have 0 experience to fall back on in the corporate world just as everyone else hits the age where they start earning the big bucks.

Coming from countries from the subcontinent, your age plays a huge role in the jobs you get. Very few will hire a late thirties guy with zero years of experience at a real job. So if a chance comes up to secure their future a little bit, it would be foolish to put your country first. Your country is not going to pay the bills when you're 45.

I don't have any knowledge about the subcontinent jobs market. But I read a really interesting interview with Dennis Lillee a couple of weeks ago about his business he had developed, and how the experiences he had had helped him in the business world (he runs a company that makes safety footwear iirc). He was of the generation where you had to get a job after your career, and he actually spoke very positively about it.

 

[aussie]

Cricket is unique from other sports, The duration of the games is much longer than any other sport, The scheduling is different. How many International series are organized and scheduled by FIFA every year ? And now please compare that to ICC 10 year Test plan for every year + ODI series + T20 series.

My comparison to FIFA as the prime example as a governing body, was to show that a major sporting body has to be run that way.

Of course the sports are different. But never in football can i rich tycoon twice in 30 years threaten to destablize & destroy that sport. The most a tycoon can do is buy clubs & hope to build a team UNDER FIFA regulations.

ICC needs to create a window for T20/IPL like tournament and that's the best option right now. And no it is not criminal to play/participate in a tournament which gives you a better financial security. Anyone, including you, would do the same in similar circumstances.

Yea i agree that a window needs to be created for the IPL. Nor do i have a problem with the money the players are earning, thats obviously great for them.

The underlining problem as i've argued before is that the IPL was created too hastility, with too much as an Indian brand, with stupid rules (4 player intl restriction). Without any forsight on how it could affect the game in the future.

Thus its time ICC becomes a proper governing body, since the IPL in itself needs revamping or abolishing.

 

[aussie]

And how exactly would this autocratic ICC actually stop any so-called rebel tournaments?

Pretty simple. If the ICC was a proper governing body:

- Stanford would have had to gone to them for permission to have those two tournaments in the WI. Which they could have approved or disapproved.

- The ICL would have never been created or rather affected the game. Since even if Dev wanted to create the tournament, he really could have only gotten retired or players out of national selectors radars. No way could the confusion that caused NZ to lose Bond, PAK lose Yousuf, Razzaq & poor Bangladesh loose some important players.

- The IPL would have been created as global brand instead of an Indian brand. Thus cray other tournaments the like Champions League, SPL & EPL (which thankfully have been scrapped) would never have come into ppls thoughts.

All of this explosion of T20s is due to ICC have no control of game & its been cruelly exposed.

 

[silentstriker]

Even if ICC had complete control of the game, how would they stop ICL?

 

[SJS]

Even if ICC had complete control of the game, how would they stop ICL?

I suppose by getting their official member (BCCI in this case) to do it for them.

 

[Shri]

The underlining problem as i've argued before is that the IPL was created too hastility, with too much as an Indian brand, with stupid rules (4 player intl restriction). Without any forsight on how it could affect the game in the future.

Thus its time ICC becomes a proper governing body, since the IPL in itself needs revamping or abolishing.

How is the IPL any different from the English or Aussie T20 leagues? It is just a financially richer domestic T20 league that has a more lenient Overseas player restriction i.e 4 players per side.

 

[Polo23]

How is the IPL any different from the English or Aussie T20 leagues? It is just a financially richer domestic T20 league that has a more lenient Overseas player restriction i.e 4 players per side.

You're joking right?

 

[Bronx]

How is the IPL any different from the English or Aussie T20 leagues? It is just a financially richer domestic T20 league that has a more lenient Overseas player restriction i.e 4 players per side.

Yeah it just has the power to pull guys away from playing for there country. Would guys like Gayle go and play for WA for 50K and decide to retire from international cricket, I think not. Plus the IPL only works because of the international players, without them I couldn't see it being that big.