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Stuart Broad

Uppercut

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I think it's inconceivable that all 5 of the bowlers could be that bad a second time in a row, so the number of changes should be minimal and conditions/injury based.
Personally I think when you replace Panesar with Onions, that's your best five bowlers. They might not be good enough, because Australia are still better, but it's the best you can put out there.

I may be Broad's biggest ex-critic, having absolutely tore into him for the vast majority of his test career. But I've got to say, the guy's massively improved beyond all recognition. One bad test (in which no other bowlers took any wickets anyway) doesn't change that.

It's fair enough to say, 'it was only the West Indies he performed against', but that doesn't account for the fact that he outbowled every fast bowler on the tour comprehensively- including players like Flintoff, Harmison, Anderson and Sidebottom. On top of that, it wasn't exactly sub-standard players he dismissed- Chanderpaul and Nash four times each in five tests, Sarwan three times. Those aren't easy players to shift.

And on top of that, actually watching him bowl demonstrates a player infinitely more useful than the man of 2008. His pace is up (and unlike Harmison, it stays up through his second and third spells). He's finally finding some seam movement, swing and reverse swing- just because he didn't do it at Cardiff when nobody else did either doesn't mean he can't. And he often looks like taking wickets.

The one criticism I agree with 100% is that Andrew Strauss overestimates Broad's role in the team, bowling him at the start of every session. He's absolutely one of England's best five bowlers at the minute, but he shouldn't have that kind of pressure put on him- it's neither good for his development as a player nor good for the team.
 
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Pigeon

Banned
It is also worth remembering that Broad bowled much less overs than other bowlers in Windies. He is best used as a strike bowler.
 

King Pietersen

International Captain
Broad was the only one of those guys to play all 4 Tests though iirc. So an overs per match comparison would be fairer:

Harmison: 27
Khan: 29
Sidebottom: 29.5
Flintoff: 31.1
Broad: 32.75
Anderson: 43

So yeh, there's very little change there. I do tend to agree with Pigeon that he is better off being used as a Strike bowler though. That was something he did well in the Windies, coming on and getting his captain a wicket. Picked up some really big wickets in that series when they were really needed. That's probably why Strauss was giving him the ball at the start of each session, in order to try and get him a wicket, and it actually worked as soon as Broad started bowling better, towards the end of the Test, when he picked up Clarke. He was given far too many overs in that Test, given he was bowling quite poorly. I expect him to bowl alot better at Lords.
 
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Uppercut

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Broad was the only one of those guys to play all 4 Tests though iirc. So an overs per match comparison would be fairer:

Harmison: 27
Khan: 29
Sidebottom: 29.5
Flintoff: 31.1
Broad: 32.75
Anderson: 43

So yeh, there's very little change there. I do tend to agree with Pigeon that he is better off being used as a Strike bowler though. That was something he did well in the Windies, coming on and getting his captain a wicket. Picked up some really big wickets in that series when they were really needed. That's probably why Strauss was giving him the ball at the start of each session, in order to try and get him a wicket, and it actually worked as soon as Broad started bowling better, towards the end of the Test, when he picked up Clarke. He was given far too many overs in that Test, given he was bowling quite poorly. I expect him to bowl alot better at Lords.
You're going to have to alter those stats to allow for the Antigua test that wasn't.
 

King Pietersen

International Captain
I did. I made sure to check which Tests they'd played (Y). Broads numbers would have been lower if I'd gone by the 5 Tests numbered.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Loathe as I am to use the 05 comparisons, is anyone else reminded of the flak Giles copped after the first Test four years ago when Broad is discussed? Obviously there are key differences, but he is being scapegoated somewhat IMO
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Loathe as I am to use the 05 comparisons, is anyone else reminded of the flak Giles copped after the first Test four years ago when Broad is discussed? Obviously there are key differences, but he is being scapegoated somewhat IMO
I get what you mean, but obviously the biggest difference is that people were saying 'Giles is too old and past it', whereas people are saying 'Broad isn't good enough, yet'.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Broad'll keep his place if fit. He's been in very good form in the past few months, he's got wickets consistently in all forms and has started to really look the part, just had a bad game. If we're dropping guys after 1 bad game, then we're going to have an almost completely changed XI bar Collingwood, Prior and Anderson. I'm backing Broad to have a good series still.
I'm not backing Broad to have a good series at all, but there's no way I'd drop him for the Second Test.
 

Uppercut

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I'm not backing Broad to have a good series at all, but there's no way I'd drop him for the Second Test.
Yeah, same here. Broad may not be good enough to pose much of a threat to the Aussie batsmen, but I'm not convinced England have an alternative option who is.
 

JBH001

International Regular
Personally I think when you replace Panesar with Onions, that's your best five bowlers. They might not be good enough, because Australia are still better, but it's the best you can put out there.

I may be Broad's biggest ex-critic, having absolutely tore into him for the vast majority of his test career. But I've got to say, the guy's massively improved beyond all recognition. One bad test (in which no other bowlers took any wickets anyway) doesn't change that.

It's fair enough to say, 'it was only the West Indies he performed against', but that doesn't account for the fact that he outbowled every fast bowler on the tour comprehensively- including players like Flintoff, Harmison, Anderson and Sidebottom. On top of that, it wasn't exactly sub-standard players he dismissed- Chanderpaul and Nash four times each in five tests, Sarwan three times. Those aren't easy players to shift.

And on top of that, actually watching him bowl demonstrates a player infinitely more useful than the man of 2008. His pace is up (and unlike Harmison, it stays up through his second and third spells). He's finally finding some seam movement, swing and reverse swing- just because he didn't do it at Lord's when nobody else did either doesn't mean he can't. And he often looks like taking wickets.

The one criticism I agree with 100% is that Andrew Strauss overestimates Broad's role in the team, bowling him at the start of every session. He's absolutely one of England's best five bowlers at the minute, but he shouldn't have that kind of pressure put on him- it's neither good for his development as a player nor good for the team.
Nice post, uppercut. Completely agree. It would be premature and unfair to drop Broad.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
I think Broad is a solid enough player, but that just won't do against the Aussies. In time i think he'll develope into a very useful all-rounder, but at the moment he will probably continue with his average bowling until summer 2010 (i predict that will be his breakthrough year).

In terms of this test, i'd personally go:

Strauss
Cook
Bopara
KP
Colly
Prior
Fred/Harmy (in Steve's case he bats 9)
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Onions
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
I'd say that is, like most percentage's, utter tripe :laugh:
No really, if you changed your last name to something like Boycott, Gower, Botham or Willis and put on a fake blonde wig then you'd be in with a good shout of becoming England's next great allrounder. The batsman won't take you seriously and you'll be averaging over 40 with the ball, but atleast your representing your country, right?
 

91Jmay

International Coach
If i'd managed to average 40 with the ball in test cricket i'd be over the moon.

I understand the point you are making, but exagerating never goes down well on internet forums.
 

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