Javed Miandad

[G.I.Joe]

He averaged 30 in the series in 82 and 50 in the series in 83. His average only goes down when you discount the 236* he scored playing in the middle order, but he shouldn't be penalised for that.

Walking in at 0/2 is equivalent to opening the batting anyway.

 

[SJS]

One thing that has always puzzled me is this “dickhead” reputation that Miandad seems to have gotten on the field (I’m not referring to any of his off-field activities). There is of course that famous spat with Lillee that contributes to it. Disgraceful as it was, nearly everyone agrees it was Lillee’s fault (and in fact most agree Lillee wanted to provoke Miandad). Lilee didn’t suffer nearly the dent in his reputation as compared to Miandad, for whatever reason. Besides that incident, we all know that Miandad was chatty and wanted to get in the skin of the opposing players. I don’t think he did that in an overly negative way. It was skillful sledging. Gavaskar often likes to tell of the incident where Miandad got to Dilip Doshi. Gavaskar “praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging. Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London” (source). So again, I’m just lost as to why Miandad is labeled a prick on the field, when to me all he’s guilty of is being a fierce competitor and fighter who refused to back down from anyone.

I completely agree. Miandad was shabbily treated by press and opponents alike in this matter. He was no worse than the Aussies of his time and he did have a great though rustic sense of humour. I think he got on the nerves of his opponents because his ****iness was combined to a somewhat uncouth exterior. I remember we used to call him "taangewallah" (man who runs a horse cart in town) because that is the how he looked. He lacked sophistication and it was held against him, unfairly I think. If Majid and Imran had tried to get on their opponents nerves from that close in ring, I think they would have been treated differently. We show our class-consciousness by the way we reacted to this man of the soil. He was unpolished and did not bother about it. Normally when players from India or Pakistan, in those days, lacked the social graces or a public school education, they tended to be somewhat subdued being ultra-conscious of their 'background' as it were. Miandad carried his rusticness as a chip on his shoulder and flung it into the faces of his opponents.

I think the sub-continent should have been proud to have a player who gave back to the established powers of the game as good as he got but we had our complexes I suppose.

 

[Fusion]

I completely agree. Miandad was shabbily treated by press and opponents alike in this matter. He was no worse than the Aussies of his time and he did have a great though rustic sense of humour. I think he got on the nerves of his opponents because his ****iness was combined to a somewhat uncouth exterior. I remember we used to call him "taangewallah" (man who runs a horse cart in town) because that is the how he looked. He lacked sophistication and it was held against him, unfairly I think. If Majid and Imran had tried to get on their opponents nerves from that close in ring, I think they would have been treated differently. We show our class-consciousness by the way we reacted to this man of the soil. He was unpolished and did not bother about it. Normally when players from India or Pakistan, in those days, lacked the social graces or a public school education, they tended to be somewhat subdued being ultra-conscious of their 'background' as it were. Miandad carried his rusticness as a chip on his shoulder and flung it into the faces of his opponents.

I think the sub-continent should have been proud to have a player who gave back to the established powers of the game as good as he got but we had our complexes I suppose.

Agree 100% with what you wrote.

 

[MrIncredible]

He is an all time great. I dont think ne one on this board doubts that.

 

[zaremba]

He is an all time great. I dont think ne one on this board doubts that.

erm...

he falls just short of being called an all-time great batsman

 

[MrIncredible]

Well then Subshakerz aside Javed is an all timer to all. What i think let him down (in my eyes atleast) is his record against the best attack of his times. Had he averaged around 40 vs the wi instead of 29 he probably would have been looked at in a better light.

 

[subshakerz]

Well then Subshakerz aside Javed is an all timer to all. What i think let him down (in my eyes atleast) is his record against the best attack of his times. Had he averaged around 40 vs the wi instead of 29 he probably would have been looked at in a better light.

I suppose it depends on what one classifies as 'all-time great'. For me, an 'all-time great' is worth consideration for an all-time XI, and Javed isn't quite at that level, similar to Inzamam. I make a distinction between being a world class player (among the best of your time, and certainly Javed was among the best batsmen of the 80s) and being an 'all-time great' (among the best of any era). Had he succeeded more against the WI, I would not hesitate putting him there. We wouldn't consider Lara and Tendulkar all-time greats if they averaged 29 against Australia, and the same standard applies.

 

[MrIncredible]

True but Australia werent the only great attack around in the Sachin/Lara era and they both struggled mightily against those attacks (RSA and Pakistan BTW).

 

[aussie]

Not completely true. He only failed in one series against the West Indies in 82, and was succesful in all series besides that , including against Holding and Roberts in 75-76, and the pace quartet in 83.

Gavaskar record vs WI pacers is one of the weirdest things in cricket history for me. His record is definately bloated by the joke attacks he faced in 70/7 & 78/79 on some flat decks.

Otherwise it seems as if when the pitch had something the WI would fail him, but if it was flat he would always score big runs.

 

[AaronK]

I pretty much agree with SJS when he said that the only reason Gavaskar is in the all time slot because he was an opener.. personally i would pick Miandad and Sir Vivian any day over Gavasker in any format of the game...

For me Miandad is the best and all time best batsman representing Pakistan.. the only other batsman that ever came close to his legacy was Inzi..he was a formidable batsman.. who would deliever.. when it was needed.. later on the same habit was picked by Inzi..

I think the only reason he isn't considered in all time best XI is because of his bating position..Certainly the position that he batted on.. there were other batsmans who deserved that slot in all time XI..so it made it hard to pick him over them..

I mean i can't imagin leaving Sachin or Lara out for Maindad..or Sir Richards and Bradman at number 3 for that matter..

 

[Sanz]

Miandad is terribly underrated by cricket fans all over the world. I grew up watching him and as an Indian fan I feared him more than any other Pakistani cricketer. Imran gets all (or most) of the credit for Pakistan's success in 80s but IMO Javed had as much to do with it. It was Javed who was more successful early in his career than Imran but still accepted Imran as the leader and was a complete team man. His batting was not as attractive to watch as Gavaskar's but IMO equally effective. He was a complete Team man and I don't know when and where this notion of him being a 'dickhead' started because as someone who watched him play in 80s, I never got that impression. He played his cricket hard and perhaps that counted against him especially when he gave it back in kind to Lillee.

 

[Anil]

miandad was an all-time great and the best batsman pakistan has ever produced period.

 

[Top_Cat]

One thing that has always puzzled me is this “dickhead” reputation that Miandad seems to have gotten on the field (I’m not referring to any of his off-field activities). There is of course that famous spat with Lillee that contributes to it. Disgraceful as it was, nearly everyone agrees it was Lillee’s fault (and in fact most agree Lillee wanted to provoke Miandad). Lilee didn’t suffer nearly the dent in his reputation as compared to Miandad, for whatever reason. Besides that incident, we all know that Miandad was chatty and wanted to get in the skin of the opposing players. I don’t think he did that in an overly negative way. It was skillful sledging. Gavaskar often likes to tell of the incident where Miandad got to Dilip Doshi. Gavaskar “praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging. Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London” (source). So again, I’m just lost as to why Miandad is labeled a prick on the field, when to me all he’s guilty of is being a fierce competitor and fighter who refused to back down from anyone.

Surely his rep as a dick only applies when talking of Aus players, though? Even then, it's unfair; the Aussies will claim Lillee only meant his kick as a light tap to annoy him but then, I don't think Javed was actually going to belt Lillee with his bat either. He and Merv were of a kind;

*sledge from Merv*

JM: "You are a bus driver, a fat bus driver."

*nick behind, JM walks off*

MH: "Tickets please, ya ****."

I also reckon had Miandad been around playing now, he'd be just another player (in terms of sledging). Pretty mild by today's standards and wasn't all that bad back then either. He's just a chatty little snot - everybody hates that guy.

Top player, though. Rated highly by everyone he played against too. Perhaps a little under-rated in the 'all-time great' stakes.

 

[NUFAN]

Did Miandad make the CW Rank the batsman top 25 last month?

I'm pretty sure he did. What positions were Richards, Gavaskar and Miandad?

 

[jondavluc]

He was rated 19.

Here is the list

1. Don Bradman
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Garry Sobers
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Viv Richards
6. WG Grace
7. Wally Hammond
8. Brian Lara
9. Greg Chappell
10. Len Hutton
11. George Headley
12. Sunil Gavaskar
13. Herbert Sutcliffe
14. Ranji
15. Ricky Ponting
16. Victor Trumper
17. Everton Weekes
18. Graeme Pollock
19. Javed Miandad
20. Allan Border
21. Dennis Compton
22. Barry Richards
23. Clyde Walcott
24. Ken Barrington
25. Steve Waugh

 

[SJS]

Gavaskar record vs WI pacers is one of the weirdest things in cricket history for me. His record is definately bloated by the joke attacks he faced in 70/7 & 78/79 on some flat decks.

Otherwise it seems as if when the pitch had something the WI would fail him, but if it was flat he would always score big runs.

I agree and I have written pages here on CW detailing that very problem with his record.

 

[NUFAN]

Cheers for the list again.

That sums it all up, he's rated highly.

 

[SJS]

Cheers for the list again.

That sums it all up, he's rated highly.

Of course he is. It is silly to think a player is not highly rated just because he is rated below another two greats.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Of course he is. It is silly to think a player is not highly rated just because he is rated below another two greats.

I said, his not rated anywhere near as close, despite outaveraging Gavaskar and making more runs then Richards.

 

[NUFAN]

Ben I wonder if the fact Viv (sorry Marshall) and Gavaskar (sorry Dev) were often seen as the most famous figure in their respective sides while Miandad played second fiddle by and large to Imran.

This could have some barring on the overall ratings of the 3 fine batsman.