Should Brett Lee be selected for the Ashes?

[Faisal1985]

Lee is a class bowler..........

 

[tooextracool]

Certainly has, years ago now. But in the midst of years of injuries, action re-adjustments, etc. it got lost as a consistent weapon so I guess he had to shelve it. In the latest article from him, he talks about how he has subtle changes in his action which he does depending on pitch/conditions. Good to see the in-ducker back.

Well, people have seen him swing the white ball, but cant remember him every swinging the red ball in international cricket before SA. And he looked a completely different bowler when he started swinging it.Will be interesting to see how the Aussie bowlers go with the Duke balls. Last time around not one of them them managed to get the Dukes to move in the air and for England's sake I hope we see a repeat of that.

 

[Burgey]

Well, people have seen him swing the white ball, but cant remember him every swinging the red ball in international cricket before SA. And he looked a completely different bowler when he started swinging it.Will be interesting to see how the Aussie bowlers go with the Duke balls. Last time around not one of them them managed to get the Dukes to move in the air and for England's sake I hope we see a repeat of that.

Troy Cooley FTW.

Stuey Clark on radio this morning mentioned the ball swung pretty much all game at Sussex, and the fellas have been moving them around pretty well at practice. Also said the batsmen are copping it bad because the bowlers are all working so hard as there are places up for grabs. Hughes apparently got "grilled" today in the nets.
I also note, for those posting from England, that it WAS suggested to Clark by Michael Slater (who interviewed him) that Australia's bowlers should all come home with only three teeth, having over-indulged on extra-strength mints. Clarki's response, namely "Dunno what you're talking about Slats" was very Simon Jones-esque.

 

[social]

Well, people have seen him swing the white ball, but cant remember him every swinging the red ball in international cricket before SA. And he looked a completely different bowler when he started swinging it.Will be interesting to see how the Aussie bowlers go with the Duke balls. Last time around not one of them them managed to get the Dukes to move in the air and for England's sake I hope we see a repeat of that.

Very different types of bowlers to 2005 as McGrath, Gillespie, Kasprowiscz and Tait (the latter 2 are more adept at swinging the old ball) were not genuine swing bowlers and all were either injured or chronically out of form

 

[tooextracool]

Troy Cooley FTW.

Stuey Clark on radio this morning mentioned the ball swung pretty much all game at Sussex, and the fellas have been moving them around pretty well at practice. Also said the batsmen are copping it bad because the bowlers are all working so hard as there are places up for grabs. Hughes apparently got "grilled" today in the nets.
I also note, for those posting from England, that it WAS suggested to Clark by Michael Slater (who interviewed him) that Australia's bowlers should all come home with only three teeth, having over-indulged on extra-strength mints. Clarki's response, namely "Dunno what you're talking about Slats" was very Simon Jones-esque.

Interesting. Would expect Clark to get some movement in the air given that hes played CC before and had a good time off it. Siddle doesnt appear to be someone who moves the ball much in the air and B. Lee has always struggled to move the red ball on a consistent basis. I guess Johnson is the one who I'm really interested in hearing about when the next warm up starts.

 

[tooextracool]

Very different types of bowlers to 2005 as McGrath, Gillespie, Kasprowiscz and Tait (the latter 2 are more adept at swinging the old ball) were not genuine swing bowlers and all were either injured or chronically out of form

Mcgrath and Lee swung the ball around corners in the ODI series against England. Yet both failed to move the ball in the air for the vast majority of the Ashes tests, and this while England's bowlers were getting prodigious movement throughout the series.
Tait to me has the sort of action that encourages conventional away swing much the same as Malinga and Edwards. And Kaspa has definetly swung the ball on many occasions in the past whilst I wouldnt really call him a consistent swinger of the cricket ball. Kaspa was arrow straight in the tests, couldnt get the ball to do anything.

 

[pup11]

Interesting. Would expect Clark to get some movement in the air given that hes played CC before and had a good time off it. Siddle doesnt appear to be someone who moves the ball much in the air and B. Lee has always struggled to move the red ball on a consistent basis. I guess Johnson is the one who I'm really interested in hearing about when the next warm up starts.

Clark is predominately a seamer, but if he is in good rhythm and the conditions are favorable to swing bowling, there he too can swing the ball, pretty much the same can be said about Siddle, but Siddle does have a natural outswinger in his arsenal, which he might be able to get going in English conditons.

Lee is where the problem lies, one can pretty sure he wouldn't get any moment through the air with the new ball, but he can get the old ball to reverse, and that's what he would probably be banking upon the most in this series, to get most of his wickets.

As for Johnson, he recently said in an interview, that he has got his long lost outswinger back, and he did swing the ball in the South African series, but as you said, the practice game starting today would to some extent show whether, he can swing the Duke ball in English conditions.

Then there is also Hilfenhaus in the squad, who is a genuine swing bowler, so if one of the quicks have a torrid series, then he could be brought in as one of the replacements.

So when one looks at the Australian bowling attack from 2005 Ashes series, and compare it with the fast bowling of the current squad, then its pretty fair to say that the 2009 fast bowling group has got more variety and flexibility, as compared to the one in 2005 Ashes series.

 

[Jakester1288]

*Bump*

After his performance on day 2 against the England Lions (which I couldn't watch), do people think he should be included in the team now?

Was be bowling well or just get a few cheap wickets, poor batsmen, good/bad decisions, etc.

 

[Manee]

*Bump*

After his performance on day 2 against the England Lions (which I couldn't watch), do people think he should be included in the team now?

Was be bowling well or just get a few cheap wickets, poor batsmen, good/bad decisions, etc.

Twas one of the great spells judging from the highlights. I'm a tad peeved I didn't get to watch the whole thing, but yeh, was consistently over 90mph (average speed was noted at 92.3mph about half way through the stint), timing one ball at 95.5mph, was getting reverse swing comparable to Jimmy Anderson in the West Indies (in terms of quantity and control) and was pitching in a good line as well as an attacking full length.

 

[Jakester1288]

Twas one of the great spells judging from the highlights. I'm a tad peeved I didn't get to watch the whole thing, but yeh, was consistently over 90mph (average speed was noted at 92.3mph about half way through the stint), timing one ball at 95.5mph, was getting reverse swing comparable to Jimmy Anderson in the West Indies (in terms of quantity and control) and was pitching in a good line as well as an attacking full length.

Awesome, sounds good.

So he is pretty much a lock in for the first game, you reckon?

 

[Manee]

Awesome, sounds good.

So he is pretty much a lock in for the first game, you reckon?

Yes. Definitely secured his place.

 

[Simon]

Awesome spell of bowling, was reversing it a mile at 92-93MPH every ball. Lee will be in.

 

[Burgey]

*Bump*

After his performance on day 2 against the England Lions (which I couldn't watch), do people think he should be included in the team now?

Was be bowling well or just get a few cheap wickets, poor batsmen, good/bad decisions, etc.

Yep Jake, he's in for sure now. Bowled well, even before it started reversing. Should've had a wicket very first ball. Plum shout turned down. Bloke went on to get a ton too.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Seems like get got Amla with a good ball here. But this doesn't discredit my intial point about his performace in the SCG test. That he was accurate, without be threatening.

Reading back this dismissal, i sort of remember this. But the fact that he got him out on a refferal, doesn't say much for McDonald. All it shows that given that SA where under pressure chasing 454, they had to play him with caution.

A bit of a fluke this, as i remember

Nope. Perfect example was the second test in Durban.

After Johnson had bowled one of the most intimadting spell of fast-bowling ever, ripping through the top. The SA batsmen had to play McDonald circumspectly. Especially Kallis who had his jaw shattered, who he dismissed.

Haa...this is the best comparison i could give TBH. The Waugh bro's bowling medium pace in the 90s could have done his job.

No, playing Nannes or Bollinger would have clearly made AUS attack in those 4 test more potent.

McDonald may not have disgraced himself, but AUS clearly got lucky with his selection as i've shown. Has i've said before if AUS pick him as one of 4 MAIN- bowlers again, that would be utter ignorance.

Wow, you certainly have a very interesting take on the game of cricket. McDonald gains grudging acknowledgment when he takes a wicket, and plays no part in others getting theirs. A wicket on a referral, which was given anyway beforehand, doesn't say much for the bowler? A good reflex caught and bowled (another referral, so it probably doesn't say much for McDonald either) is a fluke. The SA batsmen had to bow to the nagging 120kph pace of McDonald after a fiery Johnson spell. McDonald dismissed Kallis because he copped a hit on the jaw. The Aussie selectors got lucky selecting a guy who's done the same job in domestic cricket.

Wonderful analysis. Glad you took the time to read about the series.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yep Jake, he's in for sure now. Bowled well, even before it started reversing. Should've had a wicket very first ball. Plum shout turned down. Bloke went on to get a ton too.

It's good to see he's hit some form. I was probably most concerned about Lee out of the quicks in contention as I thought Clark would be suited to the conditions anyway. McDonald can cool his heels now for a while

 

[Simon]

I think Hilfy should have played this game in place of Johnson in hindsight. I dont think we can go in with Hauritz no matter how square cardiff is going to turn. It looks like Johnson/Siddle/Lee are the three main quicks but I think either Clark or Hilfy will get that final spot.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think Hilfy should have played this game in place of Johnson in hindsight. I dont think we can go in with Hauritz no matter how square cardiff is going to turn. It looks like Johnson/Siddle/Lee are the three main quicks but I think either Clark or Hilfy will get that final spot.

I don't think it would have been a good idea to give Johnson his first hit out in the First Test. I'd say they're looking at Clark or Hauritz now for that final spot and Hilfy may get a chance down the track. Personally I'd go for Clark unless Hauritz produces some sort of miracle.

 

[Golaxi]

i said before how can anyone even question him being in? he just had an amazing spell. im worried as an england fan tbh. reverse swinging at 95mph! aaahhhhhhhh. feels like shoab akhtar all over again. lets hope he treds on a cricket ball :-p.

btw why are you bothering with hauritz? he looks a zillion times worse than ashley giles! hes getting pummelld atm

its a shame harmies not being considered. he's tearing these aussies to peices on a flat pitch. theyre proper scared by him. ducking and diving everywhere :-p.

 

[Son Of Coco]

i said before how can anyone even question him being in? he just had an amazing spell. im worried as an england fan tbh. reverse swinging at 95mph! aaahhhhhhhh. feels like shoab akhtar all over again. lets hope he treds on a cricket ball :-p.

btw why are you bothering with hauritz? he looks a zillion times worse than ashley giles! hes getting pummelld atm

its a shame harmies not being considered. he's tearing these aussies to peices on a flat pitch. theyre proper scared by him. ducking and diving everywhere :-p.

Because he's in the squad and they were hoping he'd bowl well I guess.

Lee's position was questioned because he hadn't played for a while and wasn't great for a period of time (obviously due to injury) before he stopped playing.It's easy to say in hindsight, but anyone who honestly says they knew he was going to come back and bowl well is possibly having a lend of themselves. I'm glad he is bowling well though, it's better to have a dilemma with in-form players than out of form players.

 

[Golaxi]

.

Because he's in the squad and they were hoping he'd bowl well I guess.

Lee's position was questioned because he hadn't played for a while and wasn't great for a period of time (obviously due to injury) before he stopped playing.It's easy to say in hindsight, but anyone who honestly says they knew he was going to come back and bowl well is possibly having a lend of themselves. I'm glad he is bowling well though, it's better to have a dilemma with in-form players than out of form players.

i believe you'll find in this thread i did in fact say he would be your biggest threat, im not having a lend of myself,

post #388 http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/ashes-2009/41879-should-brett-lee-selected-ashes-26.html#post1942460
"
are you mad! brett lees your best bowler!

i guaruntee you hes the only one that scares the england batsmen. will be the quickest bowler of the series. did you ever see what shoab akhtar done to england?"

and just two posts after that an aussie saying

"Lee should be at the bottom of the pecking order out of the tour squad IMO. He doesn't have the work into him to think he'd improve on his pretty poor record in England. A few overs on a couple of T20 matches isn't enough. Needs to working his tail off in the nets and in the few tour games to get his mojo going.

If Lee or Clark aren't fully fit, we're much better taking McDonald to compliment Johnson and Siddle. "


I believe i am a genious?