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*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010

Uppercut

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As opposed to saying Valencia is useless when that's based on nothing but subjectivity? And by factual opinion I meant based on facts. Such as:

Tony Adams being not a very good manager.
Torres being an awesome striker.
Valencia being useful.
Ronaldo and Messi being two of the best players in the world.
Pfft. Not like I haven't watched Valencia play regularly for Wigan and Ecuador over the course of more than two years and formed an opinion based on that.

Valencia will have absolutely zero impact at Old Trafford. He's not even as good a player as Park.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
It cant be get worse for United, hopefully good news on Hargreaves fitness is on the way...
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
As opposed to saying Valencia is useless when that's based on nothing but subjectivity? And by factual opinion I meant based on facts. Such as:

Tony Adams being not a very good manager.
Torres being an awesome striker.
Valencia being useful.
Ronaldo and Messi being two of the best players in the world.
Those are list of subjective opinions, not fact, there are a lot of people in the world who believe that Ronaldo and Messi are overated, the fact that most of the world, of you disagree doesn't make it a rubbish opinion. Your arguments for why your opinion is so much greater than anyone elses are hardly convicing either. At least uppercut has put forward a valid argument to back up his thoughts, which is more than you have done.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
It cant be get worse for United, hopefully good news on Hargreaves fitness is on the way...
Yeah, pretty sure being the premiership champions and one of the richest clubs in the world puts them in truly dire straits tbh.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Indeed, as a Tranmere fan with 9 contracted professionals in our squad I'm thanking the almighty god that I'm not a United fan right now
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, pretty sure being the premiership champions and one of the richest clubs in the world puts them in truly dire straits tbh.
Haa well if what i going on with United right now leads you to this conclusion, i don't think there is much i can say to you then...
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Pfft. Not like I haven't watched Valencia play regularly for Wigan and Ecuador over the course of more than two years and formed an opinion based on that.

Valencia will have absolutely zero impact at Old Trafford. He's not even as good a player as Park.
Those are list of subjective opinions, not fact, there are a lot of people in the world who believe that Ronaldo and Messi are overated, the fact that most of the world, of you disagree doesn't make it a rubbish opinion. Your arguments for why your opinion is so much greater than anyone elses are hardly convicing either. At least uppercut has put forward a valid argument to back up his thoughts, which is more than you have done.
So I should value this opinion on football more than a team of scouts and one of the best managers ever.

It is fact that Ronaldo and Messi are two of the best players in the world. Along with Kaka they are the 3 best. Look it up.

Tony Adams' managerial record is comparable to some of the worst managers so hence it's quite safe to say he is not a good manager at this point.

Torres' goalscoring is comparable at this stage of his career to worldwide acknowledged good forwards.

Valencia has been acknowledged by Steve Bruce and Ferguson who've seen much more of him than all of us as a good player. So excuse me if I kindly disregard your opinions and wait for him to actually play season's worth of games for the club before calling him useless and worse than Park.
It cant be get worse for United, hopefully good news on Hargreaves fitness is on the way...
Yeah, pretty sure being the premiership champions and one of the richest clubs in the world puts them in truly dire straits tbh.
Indeed, as a Tranmere fan with 9 contracted professionals in our squad I'm thanking the almighty god that I'm not a United fan right now
Quite so. Horrid times. Relegation beckons.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
So I should value this opinion on football more than a team of scouts and one of the best managers ever.

It is fact that Ronaldo and Messi are two of the best players in the world. Along with Kaka they are the 3 best. Look it up.

Tony Adams' managerial record is comparable to some of the worst managers so hence it's quite safe to say he is not a good manager at this point.

Torres' goalscoring is comparable at this stage of his career to worldwide acknowledged good forwards.

Valencia has been acknowledged by Steve Bruce and Ferguson who've seen much more of him than all of us as a good player. So excuse me if I kindly disregard your opinions and wait for him to actually play season's worth of games for the club before calling him useless and worse than Park.





Quite so. Horrid times. Relegation beckons.
I see, and because the same scouts said how good Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and all that lot were, and I said they were crap, I guess that makes my opinion wrong as well?
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
I see, and because the same scouts said how good Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and all that lot were, and I said they were crap, I guess that makes my opinion wrong as well?
No. Why do you assume that they're the same scouts though? And why would you not consider that those aforementioned were playing in different leagues whereas Valencia has been playing in England?
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
No, what you said in an earlier post lead me to this conclusion.
Then your interpretation skills are quite poor. Since my point by no means discredited United's position as prem champs nor its status as one of the richest clubs in the world.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Then your interpretation skills are quite poor. Since my point by no means discredited United's position as prem champs nor its status as one of the richest clubs in the world.
Oh I see, so in fact things actually can get worse for Man Utd? Contrary to your previous statement.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
No. Why do you assume that they're the same scouts though? And why would you not consider that those aforementioned were playing in different leagues whereas Valencia has been playing in England?
I don't assume they are the same, and where they were playing makes no difference. I was highlighting the fact that just because a scout says something doesn't make it gospel, nor does it make anything anyone else says contrary to this wrong in any way whatsoever.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
No. Why do you assume that they're the same scouts though? And why would you not consider that those aforementioned were playing in different leagues whereas Valencia has been playing in England?
Probably not the same scouts yea, but i dont buy that "he's been playing in England argument". Jermaine Pennant has been playing in league for years & still cant cross properly. Unfortunately i do see Valencia's signing as another Kleberson.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
I don't assume they are the same, and where they were playing makes no difference. I was highlighting the fact that just because a scout says something doesn't make it gospel, nor does it make anything anyone else says contrary to this wrong in any way whatsoever.
Probably not the same scouts yea, but i dont buy that "he's been playing in England argument". Jermaine Pennant has been playing in league for years & still cant cross properly. Unfortunately i do see Valencia's signing as another Kleberson.
The country/ league argument matters because not everyone can adapt to different styles. Valencia has played in England and done well enough to be a target for top clubs. He's used to the league and is less of a risk than signing some Italian winger who'll get fed up within the first few games and be wanting a move.

Djemba and Kleberson didn't adapt to England moving to a top team directly and not having the chance to work themselves in by getting a regular run of games. Valencia like say Cantona has been in England for a while so now knows what to expect and is less of a gamble than the Italian winger. The German league is similar to England's in some respects so someone like Ribery would be a good buy as well noting that Ribery is a better player than Valencia.

For what the manager wants though, Valencia fits. He's got pace, will put in a tackle, works hard and has a decent cross but his finishing is off and as been admitted as much by Bruce.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
The country/ league argument matters because not everyone can adapt to different styles. Valencia has played in England and done well enough to be a target for top clubs. He's used to the league and is less of a risk than signing some Italian winger who'll get fed up within the first few games and be wanting a move.

Djemba and Kleberson didn't adapt to England moving to a top team directly and not having the chance to work themselves in by getting a regular run of games. Valencia like say Cantona has been in England for a while so now knows what to expect and is less of a gamble than the Italian winger. The German league is similar to England's in some respects so someone like Ribery would be a good buy as well noting that Ribery is a better player than Valencia.

For what the manager wants though, Valencia fits. He's got pace, will put in a tackle, works hard and has a decent cross but his finishing is off and as been admitted as much by Bruce.
Yeah, thats not interesting, I couldn't give a crap about players adapting etc...

All I was saying is that scouts and football professionals are not always right!!! And hence, normal people outside of football are not always wrong!!!
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Yeah, thats not interesting, I couldn't give a crap about players adapting etc...

All I was saying is that scouts and football professionals are not always right!!! And hence, normal people outside of football are not always wrong!!!
I never said that was the case. It was just the useless comment really. It's like comparing him to Shola Ameobi and Keith Andrews. Totally wrong. I just agree with the scouts and Ferguson who've watched him intently that he could do a good job as he attributes that indicate that as well as putting in good performances against Man Utd.
 

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