biased indian
International Coach
this should be a sticky now
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**Official** India In West Indies
- Thread starter dossa
- Start date
shivfan
Banned
When the Ashes is going on, nothing else is important....
Did you notice how cricinfo has only just made this series a 'current' series? This was while the Ashes has been listed as a 'current' series for the past few weeks.
ret
International Debutant
I can understand them combining as 5th bowlers but you have only 3 specialist bowlers, which means these two, along with other part-timers will be bowling 20 overs amongst them. And if one of the specialist bowlers has an off day, may be even more!
I don't see that helping either the bowlers or the team .... tomm, you will say that we need to improve some of the bowlers batting as they are not good enough to be in the side for just their bowling so let's play 7 of these guys with an objective to make them bat like proper batsmen. Such exercises are probably like giving invitation to trouble
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
You have two options- either play five bowlers and have the opposition batting in check, or play six (or seven) batsmen to strengthen your batting. The Indian team management seems to have chosen the latter, so this plan was drafted to aid that.
Of all the part-timers at hand, Yusuf is a full-fledged bowler for Baroda and Royals, but Dhoni uses him as a part-timer, and it shows on his figures. Nayar is a regular seam-up bowler for Mumbai and does the job well there. All the part-timers are utter rubbish and need that series of safety nets that Dhoni applies, at the cost of the figures of the top four. With this plan in practice, there will be no comfort for the part-timers and they have to put up a good show, consistently, and we'll see the bad ones weeded out in some time, with the decent ones staying on.
The reverse experiment may also have to be tried out. Irfan Pathan has lost his place in the squad, and with the current selection committee, he doesn't stand a chance of being an India regular for some time. That weakens the team greatly, as the batsmen can't bowl, the bowlers can't bat and the captain has no trust in the all-rounder at hand. At present, Harbhajan and Praveen Kumar are good options, but you can't try out all your experiments in one series. Let that other plan come in play when they play a flat-track tournament later on.
You may find this plan weird, but this is an exhibition tournament. The Champions Trophy is not too far away. They have to get their team ready and in proper shape until then. They need five proper bowlers in action, or at least a batsman replacing one of the bowlers and keeping it tight. Right now, they have none. That gap has to be plugged.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
What will you expect of Ashish Nehra? He's not in the top four right now, and two of them (Praveen, Ishant) are still around, while IPL hero RP Singh is also available. That said, Nehra has also done quite well in the IPL, though Nehra played for a weaker (or under-performing) batting side and had to work harder. His fielding is also a lot better than in the early 2000s, when he was a regular. Maybe he'll edge out RP Singh or Praveen slightly. None of RP Singh, Nehra and Ishant can score runs.
Then there's Pragyan Ojha. Volumes were spoken of him each time he came out to bowl in the IPL, then in the league matches in the World T20. All of that, however, was silenced when the West Indians thrashed him all around the park in the Super Eight stage, and he was dropped since. It is a bit of a mystery, but he too was a Deccan Chargers player, and that team depended a lot on their top three batsmen, and was way out of his comfort zone. He's also a very good fielder, but can't bat for toffees, and that's a factor.
Then there's Pragyan Ojha. Volumes were spoken of him each time he came out to bowl in the IPL, then in the league matches in the World T20. All of that, however, was silenced when the West Indians thrashed him all around the park in the Super Eight stage, and he was dropped since. It is a bit of a mystery, but he too was a Deccan Chargers player, and that team depended a lot on their top three batsmen, and was way out of his comfort zone. He's also a very good fielder, but can't bat for toffees, and that's a factor.
ret
International Debutant
I don't mind experimenting but that would be in form of trying out new players like Pandey .... I wouldn't focus on trying to turn guys who are not good enough to bowl their quota in to regular bowlers or vice versa unless they are batting/bowling better than a specialist who is out of form or not delivering and when there are no other options
Guys like Ojha, Nehra, RP and Praveen are capable of bowling much better than YP or Nayar on a consistent basis. I would rather play them to improve their form and confidence in a meh series like this than play YP and Nayar as specialist bowlers in their place and hope that they come good .... Even Robin Singh wasn't good enough to bowl is quota of 10 overs on a consistent basis, expecting these two to do that at international level is having high hopes
biased indian
International Coach
ya trueWhen the Ashes is going on, nothing else is important....
Did you notice how cricinfo has only just made this series a 'current' series? This was while the Ashes has been listed as a 'current' series for the past few weeks.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Some of them are good enough to bowl their full quota of overs. Their captains at Ranji, Duleep, India A and IPL use them fully, and the Indian captain should too. Besides, Irfan Pathan was the best full-fledged all-rounder at hand, but has been dropped because he isn't getting wickets for some time, so a replacement is necessary.
Much better? That's a contentious issue. More often than not, these bowlers have been a little better than average, with few wickets to show in comparison to a Murali, Mendis, Mitchell or Lee. They're not great, and not so much better than Yusuf or Nayar, on form. The idea is to get a genuine all-rounder, a proper replacement for Irfan Pathan and to have proper bowlers bowling all 50 overs. Rather than have Yuvraj or Rohit under pressure by getting them on to bowl, when they are your batting mainstays (and no good with the ball), you can get the relatively under-used Yusuf (who hardly gets to bat) or Nayar (who'll get even less to bat) to bowl more.ret said:
Yusuf has taken five wickets in an innings seven times in FC cricket and twice in List-A. Nayar has taken five twice in FC and once in List-A. No part-time bowler in this squad has taken five wickets even once, or even lasted long enough for that. These two are not too glamorous, but just right to secure ten overs. Robin Singh was not much of a batsman, so he lost his place in the team. These two (particularly Yusuf) are far better. On the other hand, when you look at Yuvraj's performance in the New Zealand series, he bowled at five overs a match, and both his bowling and batting were well below par. He's not cut out for it, so an option is needed.
garage flower
State Vice-Captain
Some typically odd selections here.
Will Lendl Simmons really benefit more from playing a warm-up game against a poor international side than he will a series of ODIs against India? And even if you do agree with the exclusion of Simmons, what about the inclusion of Deonarine?! Why is he more deserving than, say, Dale Richards (assuming Richards isn’t injured again!)? Not only is the squad short on natural openers, but Richards is the more aggressive batsman and has a significantly better List A record (Deonarine averages just 21 from 60 games, compared to 30 for Richards). Alternatively, why not throw in Barath, who has been consistent in both forms of the game since his early introduction to the domestic scene.
There is some logic to Morton’s return, as his is one of the better one-day records in the West Indies, but it still seems a retrograde step, particularly given his continuing disciplinary problems. What about Romel Currency, who had a superb one day tournament last year and has a good overall List A record (averaging a shade under 40 from 20-odd games)?
In the absence of Edwards, bowling options are pretty limited and Pascal is a logical replacement as a genuine strike bowler, though it remains to be seen whether he’s good enough for international cricket. Darren Sammy, who again proved himself to be an effective containing bowler and excellent fielder in the limited opportunities afforded to him in the T20 World Cup, finds himself shabbily treated yet again. His exuberance will be missed by this temperamental West Indies squad.
Players like Samuel Badree and Sherwin Ganga, who’ve contributed a lot to Trinidad’s recent success in shorter forms of the game, also merit consideration, even if they’d perhaps be thought of as “bits and pieces” players at the highest level.
I’m pleased Pollard has been sent back to work on his game in domestic cricket. His inept batting is a huge disappointment. He doesn’t even seem to be in the Dwayne Smith category of a naturally talented player who needs to improve technique/shot selection. As far as I can see, he just can’t bat.
And just to finish on Smith, does anyone know what the latest is on his availability for West Indies? I assume he’s got a county contract this year, but could add a lot to the West Indies ODI team.
Jigga988
State 12th Man
Excellently summed up as usual garage flower...
Looking forward to the prospect of watching Darren Bravo, can't wait to see what he can do as only seen glimpses of him in stanford and other bit part shorter tourneys.
Yeah Sammy's exclusion is somewhat baffling as he does not usually fail for the Windies but Baker is a pretty good one day bowler as i reckon his record should show.
A big concern for me is of course with the bowling, with Edwards gone the only wicket threat seems to be Bravo on recent form and even he should not consistently worry the Indian batsmen. Scared it's going to be like the England series in the way that we will merely bowl for the sake of bowling, be unambitious in the way we go about bowling and the way we set our fields which usually follows with a lack of effort from the boys in the field and culminates in India always posting scores of 300 and Gayle thinking he can chase down anything and that bowling effectively does not matter and Windies loosing as bad as we did against England.
Think the distinct lack of wicket takers will be resultant in the Windies loosing the series...
Looking forward to the prospect of watching Darren Bravo, can't wait to see what he can do as only seen glimpses of him in stanford and other bit part shorter tourneys.
Yeah Sammy's exclusion is somewhat baffling as he does not usually fail for the Windies but Baker is a pretty good one day bowler as i reckon his record should show.
A big concern for me is of course with the bowling, with Edwards gone the only wicket threat seems to be Bravo on recent form and even he should not consistently worry the Indian batsmen. Scared it's going to be like the England series in the way that we will merely bowl for the sake of bowling, be unambitious in the way we go about bowling and the way we set our fields which usually follows with a lack of effort from the boys in the field and culminates in India always posting scores of 300 and Gayle thinking he can chase down anything and that bowling effectively does not matter and Windies loosing as bad as we did against England.
Think the distinct lack of wicket takers will be resultant in the Windies loosing the series...
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Hearing on Geo news that there might be something fishy going on with the matches maybe not happening. Heard a mention of swine flu in passing. Will update if I hear something else.
EDIT: Haven't seen anything since then. Might've been something Geo jumped on without any proof.
EDIT: Haven't seen anything since then. Might've been something Geo jumped on without any proof.
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shivfan
Banned
nightprowler, I wouldn't place too much credence on this so-called swine flu threat in Trinidad....
The matches are being played in Jamaica and st Lucia, and there are no swine flu concerns there, as far as I can see. And Trinidad is just being over-cautious. I don't recall reading of any deaths from swine flu in Trinidad. In fact, the worldwide reaction to swine flu seems to be an over-reaction, IMHO....
As for Powell, let's see how he does in the WI A team game against Bangladesh before passing judgment. And yeah, it's mind-boggling that Simmons could've been dropped.
The matches are being played in Jamaica and st Lucia, and there are no swine flu concerns there, as far as I can see. And Trinidad is just being over-cautious. I don't recall reading of any deaths from swine flu in Trinidad. In fact, the worldwide reaction to swine flu seems to be an over-reaction, IMHO....
As for Powell, let's see how he does in the WI A team game against Bangladesh before passing judgment. And yeah, it's mind-boggling that Simmons could've been dropped.
no dude after seeing wat of jadeja looks like a star in the making for odi/tests.
because he is a well composed fielder, a good bowler and a single taker though not good for big ones still.
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
Sounds suspiciuosly like a back handed tactic to draw attention to the series itself, by kicking up a stink about a non-existent threat.
biased indian
International Coach
game starts tommorw and still not sticky
..the ashes & sledger has taken over the CW...
think many are not seeing this thread since its not a sticky
..the ashes & sledger has taken over the CW...think many are not seeing this thread since its not a sticky
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
absolutely.. come on.. cant one of the mods do this at least now.. the first match starts in 12 hours...
