Flintoff's bizzare anti immigration rant

[Richard]

............. freedom of speech should not be, need not be and indeed is not an absolute right even in the UK - there are, I believe at least 50 "Proscribed Organisations", and if the BNP were to cross the line they would join them

I'm always surprised that that line is not crossed by comments along the lines of

We must preserve the white race, because it has been responsible for all the good things in civilisation

and

The electors of Millwall did not back a post-modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan “Defend Rights for Whites’ with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate.

 

[Goughy]

So can you teach me to speak Cherokee so I can stop being so rude and arrogant?

The poster was from Michigan, the Cherokee are from the South-Eastern United States.

Even if there was a point to the post (which I dont think there was) then the content is wrong.

 

[Uppercut]

The poster was from Michigan, the Cherokee are from the South-Eastern United States.

Even if there was a point to the post (which I dont think there was) then the content is wrong.

No point, i was just being mildly ironic.

 

[Goughy]

The simple fact about immigrants (or anyone for that matter) is that by not speaking the local language they can create an underclass. The most dangerous is when the same problems still exist in 2nd generation immigrants.

It is an underclass devoid of opportunities across the board. They are resigned to a far lower standard of living than that expected by those that have the language.

Lower income, lower education, marginalized populations, greater exploitation, higher crime and poorer health and housing.

Obviously everyone that doesnt speak the language doesnt contribute to this but there is undeniable evidence that the introduction of low skilled workers lacking local language skills hurts both the local community and the immigrant population as well.

Unless working in a specialized and expert area or on a short term assignment, the most important thing someone can do is learn the local language. If that person is lucky enough to be in UK, USA, Aus etc then they get to learn English which is like gold when trying to work anywhere in the world.

 

[silentstriker]

The archetypical example is the KKK; when they were legitimised by having politicians amongst their numbers, they were huge and got more huge. When shunned, their membership numbers went through the floor and publicly are a bit of a joke these days.

I would say that the reason they are a joke is because they used to be a massive public organization. The reason they became shunned is because they got too overconfident with their support, and the massive scandals that rocked the leadership. They never recovered after that.

 

[Jamee999]

Suprised nobody has yet mentioned 'the Treaty of Versailles' as a key difference between now and 1930's.

The Treaty of Versailles, and WWI in general, are factors in this recession being nowhere near the scale of the Great Depression.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I don't generally agree with continued expansion of Europe- in particular I certainly don't want Turkey to become a member. Care to expand a little on the bolded part? I'd be interested in some of the details of this.

Interest rates and mortgage structure for the most part. The large majority of private borrowing in the UK is on mortgages - in the Eurozone (and I know this is stereotyping drastically) rented housing is a far more common situation. This means that interest rate setting in the UK has a big impact in the property market - whether people buy or not - whilst in the EU it affects short-term lending. That means that the rationale behind interest rate setting is dramatically different.

It is hard enough setting a rate that covers Royal Ascot and Moss Side, but opening it up to having to worry about post-Communist countries who economically have no similarities in terms of industry, financial services and labour structure exposes it unnecessarily to extra shocks for no obvious gain.

Macroeconomics - European Monetary Union

The more I play Devil's Advocate in these EU debates, the closer I get to wondering whether withdrawal is genuinely a realistic option. The prospect of voting Conservative is becoming frighteningly closer.

 

[Langeveldt]

Wow the BNP are getting some airtime on this forum..

Quite funny from Freddy, someone should tell him to get on a bus these days and tell the driver to take him to the "nearest Battlecruiser"

 

[Uppercut]

The Treaty of Versailles, and WWI in general, are factors in this recession being nowhere near the scale of the Great Depression.

It's relevant that a huge factor in making the Great Depression great was the protectionist policies that resulted from it. Richard Overy, who believed that economic reasons were the most important in causing the war, described countries as "saving their own economic skins". They shut off borders, stopped co-operating with each other, introduced major tariffs. It's a generalisation, but these things don't often help a failing economy, because when one country does it other countries have little choice but to do the same.

We don't do that now because we've learnt from it. But it's what UKIP and the BNP suggest.

 

[rivera213]

Terrible idea to drive these groups underground I'd say. It's harder to control them when you force them to operate in secret.

Yep, whilst they are masquerading as a respectible party they have to be on their best behaviour. However I disagree with a party's view, I'd rather that view be expressed in a democratic vote. Considering the BNP, as I mentioned earlier, only got 0.7% of overall vote in the 2005 general election, there's no need to **** ourselves thinking they're the second Nazi party.

Suprised nobody has yet mentioned 'the Treaty of Versailles' as a key difference between now and 1930's.

I'm surprised people have drawn comparisons between now and 1930 since the social climates are so different.

Wasn't suggesting the party be "banned" (whatever precisely that would amount to anyway), merely that the "all speech should be free" mantra one is utter nonsense and many people use it to hide behind when their literal meaning is "I want to talk a load of offensive crap and don't want someone to stop me".

So would you have arrested all the anti-British Muslims who burned Union Jacks, said death to Blair and all that crap?

 

[Richard]

I've always had tremendous distaste for flag-burning, and shouting "death to ..."

If I could find good reason to arrest such types, I'd be only too happy to.

 

[andruid]

I've always had tremendous distaste for flag-burning, and shouting "death to ..."

If I could find good reason to arrest such types, I'd be only too happy to.

You've got and intellectual AWTA ther Rich

Fervour is the weapon of choice of the impotent.
-Frantz Fanon

 

[BoyBrumby]

You've got and intellectual AWTA ther Rich

Fervour is the weapon of choice of the impotent.
-Frantz Fanon

Imagine it's Viagra nowadays, tbh.

 

[rivera213]

I've always had tremendous distaste for flag-burning, and shouting "death to ..."

If I could find good reason to arrest such types, I'd be only too happy to.

Well, you're consistent, so fair enough.

I'm sure they could've been arrested under public disorder laws but police and government are too scared of upsetting people.

That's why nothing gets done in this country.

I disagree with everything the BNP say, but the issues they speak about (politician's expenses, uncontrolled immigration, crappy police force, rise of street crime etc) are issues which pretty no other party give answers to.

Hopefully the other parties, especially the Tories since they will almost certainly be voted into power next year, give answers and solutions to the problems people want answers to.

 

[zaremba]

I'm hoping that this thread gets closed very soon. This is not a comment on the cogency of the views expressed in this thread (although if that were relevant one would have have to observe that the quality is distinctly uneven). It's just that a cricket chat forum is not the best place for political debate.

 

[Jamee999]

I'd be more inclined to move it to OT, personally, but I think it'll do here, it'll probably die off soon.

 

[a10khan]

Nothing wrong with what he said. I live in Canada and it pisses the hell outta me to call my computer tech support and find out that the call center is in India and they're struggling to pick up the North American lingo. They don't sound very polite although quite accommodating (almost ironic). Also agree with 'his rap' on rap music. While obviously not responsible for all the violence, rap generally does support assault, violence, rebellion, drugs, etc. I kind of like that an Englishmen, and most are obsessed with being politically correct, has come out and said how he sees it.

Sorry for being so judgmental but I feel its true

 

[rivera213]

I'm hoping that this thread gets closed very soon. This is not a comment on the cogency of the views expressed in this thread (although if that were relevant one would have have to observe that the quality is distinctly uneven). It's just that a cricket chat forum is not the best place for political debate.

You were involved in the debate until page 13, why the change of heart?

I don't mind political discussions but I don't see how mods can close a thread after 16 pages when it is obvious from the thread title alone the responses were going to be of a political nature. Surely it's page 1 or nothing (unless of course it decended into a forum war).

I agree it could, maybe should, be moved to the "Other" section though.

 

[zaremba]

You were involved in the debate until page 13, why the change of heart?

Sheer capriciousness.

It's heartening to see you're monitoring my involvement so precisely, though.