bagapath
International Captain
yeah it does. your team looks like the best xi post 1976. sobers retired in 73/4. so that makes sense. also botham's peak was between 78 and 82. you would have seen all of it.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Who would you pick in the Greatest Cricket XI of YOUR Lifetime?
- Thread starter World Cricket
- Start date
I picked both Sobers and Imran in my team. Without rehashing the Sobers versus Imran versus Botham versus Kallis debate, Sobers' place is fairly secure, for the simple reason that he was a better batsman than anyone else who has played since the 1960's. I very much wanted Imran in my side, and simply moved Sobers to no. 5 to include him. If Sobers is not in the all-rounder's slot it's hard to justify not selecting him as a batsman pure and simple.
bagapath
International Captain
i love your one-day team. nos 5,6,7,8 and 9 will rain sixers. so will no.2. 1 and 3 will hold the innings together. and 4 can support the big hitters and keep nudging his ones and twos. lots of bowling options too. two of the greatest one day bowlers at 9 and 11 and a very good one at no.10. 3 fast bowling all rounders to complete the remaining 20 overs. and three batsmen who can chip in with off spin, leg spin and left arm spin for variety. superb fielding team as well.
Last edited:
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Good to see Botham getting his dues though why you would make him bat below Imran is beyond me.
McGrath against test teams from 1 Jan 2001 onwards. Averages 10.76Murali won his country a test match and ODI with the bat
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com
Murali on the other hand averages 10.20 from that day onwards.
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com
After taking HS into consideration, we must conclude McGrath is a test no.9 before Murali. I expect somehow tho to hear Richard say that after 2001 pitches got easier to bat on and bowlers were not of the same quality. (Why does Murali's record go down then?)
Zinzan
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Can't see why it's 'beyond you' tbh, overall it's a fairly close thing isn't it?
The fact remains;
Botham's 1st half career batting > Imran's 1st half career batting
Imran's 2nd half career batting > Botham's 2nd half career batting
Hardly an outrageous suggestion either way in terms of the batting order
Trumpers_Ghost
U19 Cricketer
can't believe people arguing over who's a better bat between Murali and McGrath!
Seems a little irrelevant.
But I do think that Mark Taylor was an infinetly better bowler than Brian Lara .............
Seems a little irrelevant.
But I do think that Mark Taylor was an infinetly better bowler than Brian Lara .............
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
I am not so sure its that close unless you look at nothing beyond career batting averages.
Centuries:
Botham has 14 test centuries in 102 games (161 innings)
while Imran has 6 in 88 (126 innings)
Thats a century every 7.3 Tests against one every 14.7.
Botham's 11.5 innings per century is comparable to pure batsmen like
- Denness (11.2),
- Gower (11.3),
- Dexter (11.3),
- O'Neill(11.5),
- Kepler Wessels(11.8)
while Imran's frequency of a hundred every 21 innings puts him with all bowling all rounders and lesser batsmen like
- Brian McMillan (20.7),
- Chris Cairns(20.8),
- Grant Flower (20.5),
- John Parker (21)
- Kapil Dev (23) etc.
Dominating a series as a batsman:
Botham's's top runs in a series are
- 1981-81 : In India : 440 runs - Was second in series average just behind Gooch at 487. Gower, Boycott and Gatting well behind him.
- 1982 : India in Englad : 440 runs - leading run scorer for England in the series. Next was Randall with almost half as many runs at 221
- 1981 : Ashes at Home : 399 - Was leading run getter in the series with Boycott, Gower, Gatting, Gooch behind him.
- 1984 : West Indies at Home : 347 - Was second behind Lamb (386) with Gower, Gatting, Tavare and Chris Broad behind him.
Imran crossed 300 in a series only once
- 1986-87: India in India : 324 - Was second after Rameez Raja (386) with Miandad(302), Rizwan-uz-Zaman and Shoaib Mohammad after him.
Batting Order in Tests Played
Code:
[B]Player 6 & above 7 & below[/B]
Botham 71% 29%
Imran 22% 78%
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Interesting post, SJS. The 14 centuries are always something I come back to when I have one of my "Botham wasn't really that good" moments.
However there's something to be said for having Imran at 6 and Botham at 7 in that Imran was (as I remember him) a more solid batsman, whereas Botham was more explosive and more of a risk-taker - and for this reason numbers 6 and 7 respectively might suit them better.
However there's something to be said for having Imran at 6 and Botham at 7 in that Imran was (as I remember him) a more solid batsman, whereas Botham was more explosive and more of a risk-taker - and for this reason numbers 6 and 7 respectively might suit them better.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Surely Curtly was better than both with the stick?Murali won his country a test match and ODI with the bat
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Botham could bat as responsibly as Sir Geoffrey but to my recollection only ever did once, in this match
Botham was finished as a strike bowler by 1987 and IMO, at 32, could easily have gone on from here to be a consistent frontline batsman, had he been so minded, but sadly he wasn't
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
You know the problem when making all time sides is which part of a player's career are you taking. People tend to take what is convenient for them. Imran was a devastating bowler for the first part of his career (barring the very early bit) and a useful lower order batsman. Towards the latter part of his career his bowling declined but he started batting more cautiously and as captain took some charge of the lower middle order. Thus when people chose Imran as an all time great all rounder one has to take it with a pinch of salt for we tend to take his career ending figures and then 'spread' them evenly across his entire career although this wasn't how his career panned out.
I think if Imran is to be assessed at his best (as it should be for all greats) then his greatest period as a cricketer was when he was at his peak as a bowler because once his bowling declined he remained a very good cricketer but wasn't a 'great' one any more.
Botham on the other hand, during the first half of his career was a world class all rounder - a devastating batsman and a wonderful new ball bowler and one of the finest all round fielders we have seen. Its rare to see such a period (of great batting and bowling skills) coincide amongst most all rounders. Even Miller's batting flowered later although even in his best bowling times he was a much better batsman than Imran was during his peak as a bowler.
Same with Wilfred Rhodes and even to an extent with Faulkner.
Another misconception people have about Botham is on account of his speed of scoring and his six hitting. I am amazed that this causes people to consider him a 'slogger' for Botham had one of the best techniques you could imagine. His grip, stance and stroke play were almost copybook its just that he was a very aggressive stroke player and his driving was devastatingly powerful. If it did not come so easily to him and if he took it a bit more seriously one would have seen him make massive scores for he was an amazing batsman at his peak. Imagine Sehwag, add both inches and muscle to him and make him play even straighter and off both feet and you get Botham.
Just look at his feet and head position, the follow through and the balance in each of these photographs.
Backfoot drive
Hook : keeping it down
Hook for six
Inside out drive
Off Drive
On Drive
Hook from off stump
Square Cut
Hook : keeping it down
Hook for six
Inside out drive
Off Drive
On Drive
Hook from off stump
Square Cut
These are the strokes of a top order batsman. He just happened to score very fast and was flamboyant in his attitude and would probably laugh after getting out and made more enemies than friends.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Without necessarily confirming the total accuracy of everything you say Mr Z yes I did thank you
Mrs Fertang imported my pressie from Australia for me - a book about the Windies 3 wicket victory at Antigua in 2003 when they got that 418 in the 4th innings - its a cracking piece of memorabilia signed by all the Windies team - the book was written by a man who has served a prison sentence in the UK for the theft of Cricket literature !
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Completely agree. He was just a less serious cricketer and thank God for that. If I am told between Richards and Botham (at his peak) who I would love to watch bat I will have a tough time selecting. I would probably go for Sir Viv but only just - so devastating was Botham at the crease and remember I am stubbornly orthodox as far as technique goes.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Yes I agree with you that he had an excellent technique and you're spot on in saying that the quality of his technique is often misunderestimated*.
That said, my point was simply that he was overall a batsman that was better suited to 7 than 6. In my dream XIs I like to have a fighter who can if needed play long disciplined innings at 6 and an attacker at 7.
*With apologies to GW Bush.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Thats okay putting him at number 7 but my point was how to put Imran at number six unless one does not have much of a batting side as Imran did not have in the latter part of his captaincy. But in an all time side one is spoilt for choice. So while I would agree to put Botham at seven, I would put a better batsman at number six. Thats why, actually, I rarely end up putting Botham in my all time sides. He has to come in as an all rounder but his bowling isnt great. I prefer having Imran (because he is a better bowler) and put him at seven or eight (if we have a really good wicket-keeper batsman). That makes for better balance. Putting Botham is a dilemma because his bowling declined so fast (despite his wickets) and his batting style (attitude really) does not suit putting him at six like you can do with someone like Sobers or even Miller.
I have similar issues with Flintoff. He is worse. You just cant rely on him at a higher spot as a Test batsman where as if he has to bat lower you start thinking maybe we should find someone who bowls better like Wasim or Marshall or Hadlee all of whom are inferior batsmen to Flintoff.
1979 xi
Watched my first match (SA vs Aus world cup '92) when I was 12..
1. G Smith
2. Tendulkar
3. Ponting
4. B. Lara
5. Kallis
6. S Waugh
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. W Akram
10. Ambrose
11. Donald / Muralitharan depending on pitch
12. J Rhodes
13. W Younis
14. S Pollock
15. I Ul-Haq
Watched my first match (SA vs Aus world cup '92) when I was 12..
1. G Smith
2. Tendulkar
3. Ponting
4. B. Lara
5. Kallis
6. S Waugh
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. W Akram
10. Ambrose
11. Donald / Muralitharan depending on pitch
12. J Rhodes
13. W Younis
14. S Pollock
15. I Ul-Haq
Last edited: