Wrist Spin Bowling

[Uppercut]

I wouldn't call that delivery a flipper. For a start, the ball doesn't flip. It's just a quicker ball or an inswinger.

 

[someblokedave]

I was a leggie few years back, (yeah, at 32, still I can rip it a yard), but I have not heard of what you are referring. possibly I would have known it by content not by name.

Flipper, I think is a good weapon against poor layers of spin. Down here in SL, leggies don't bowl flippers much, because flippers are taken to the cleaners by the batsmen, because they play back, across and with straight bat.

Flipper, esentially means a ball that is quick through the air, skids off the wicket and does not turn.

One method is to advocate what Shane Warne uses. Force the ball forwards with the thumb and the index finger. It is very hard to pick, but very hard to bowl as well. The second method is what Afridi uses. Start as a leg break and at last moment without turning the wrist, ball is delivered as a seamer in front of the hand. It will swing in, will be much quicker than the former, and much deadlier too. But it's more noticable from hand as well as through air as it hurries on to batsmen. I used what Afridi subsequently used. My leggies were around 45-55 mph, but that quicker ball / flipper was nearly medium pace (65-70mph), and it was odd to see a leggie like me getting batsmen with inswinging yorkers.

I think you're right about the potential for the Flipper being despatched with relative ease, because it's flight is straight and it doesn't deviate off the wicket much (Mine does slightly towards the off-side like a small leg break). But mixed in with different deliveries as a surprise ball with the increased speed that you've spoken about it has it's place - do you not think? The 'Round the loop' theory is the principle of turning your wrist as a wrist spinner and in doing so producing the differing variations that a wrist spinner uses. The same principle can be applied to The Flipper.

Have you ever tried bowling Flippers in the style of Clarrie Grimmett and do you still use the Flipper much in your bowling and what do feel are the merits of using a slow flipper?

 

[Migara]

I think you're right about the potential for the Flipper being despatched with relative ease, because it's flight is straight and it doesn't deviate off the wicket much (Mine does slightly towards the off-side like a small leg break). But mixed in with different deliveries as a surprise ball with the increased speed that you've spoken about it has it's place - do you not think?

Yes, indeed, especially when players are poor against spin. If your flpper acts as a small leg break, it's more dangerous than a straight flipper IMO

The 'Round the loop' theory is the principle of turning your wrist as a wrist spinner and in doing so producing the differing variations that a wrist spinner uses. The same principle can be applied to The Flipper.

Ah yes, I get it. We call it the relative amounts of side spin and over spin used to produce variations. (Top spinner = 90% overspinner, big leg break 80% side spinners. Note 100% side spinners for a strange reason skids on without turning)

Have you ever tried bowling Flippers in the style of Clarrie Grimmett and do you still use the Flipper much in your bowling and what do feel are the merits of using a slow flipper?

No. It's very difficult. Since I have large inflexible fingers, it's difficult to force it through the fingers. What i think of a slow flipper is Warne's slider and zooter, where ball is spun with the wrist only. Fingers does not spin it, and ball is held firm with the fingers. half arc of the wrist motion will make ball to go straight, without skidding.

You can try to use the front of the hand legspinner as well. This turns less, stops on the pitch and handy when bowled flat and quick.

If you have enough finger power, three finger leg break is also a possibility. Ball is gripped only with thumb, index and middle finger, and it's spun by the middle finger. This ball drifts and drops alarmingly with some reasonable turn as well. By turning the wrist, you can send the three finger top spinner which also similarly drift and drop alarmingly. I have not tried the three fingered googly however.

 

[someblokedave]

Can you go into more detail about your three fingered leg break. If you look around the web using google say for instance 'How to bowl leg spin' you'll come across some very ropey information including 2 videos in the 1st 10-15 searches that talk about the leg break and then go on to show the bloke bowling Wrong Uns. I'm trying to compile an internet resource that describes bowling the different variations and I'm currently looking for peoples individual takes on bowling the Leg Break. You've described your 3 finger version here but not gone into any detail - can you elaborate please?

 

[someblokedave]

Marcus how do you bowl your leg break?

 

[Jarquis]

If i'm bowling it as a leg break I bowl it with 3 fingers.
If i'm bowling it as a doosra I hold it like a standard off break but bowl it with the back of my hand towards the batsman.

 

[Jarquis]

YouTube - Warne to Strauss

You can kind of see how Warney holds it in that video.

 

[someblokedave]

Yeah that's useful, how do you reckon his hand is positioned at the point of release? Where does you hand face at release and does the ball come off your 3rd finger primarily and if so does it do this to the point where you get blisters at the start of the season?

 

[sadspinner]

Just to say hi. Received your message dave. Good luck for tomorrow. Hope to learn more here.

 

[sadspinner]

If you have enough finger power, three finger leg break is also a possibility. Ball is gripped only with thumb, index and middle finger, and it's spun by the middle finger. This ball drifts and drops alarmingly with some reasonable turn as well. By turning the wrist, you can send the three finger top spinner which also similarly drift and drop alarmingly. I have not tried the three fingered googly however.

That is how I bowl my leg breaks as well. Thumb and index finger on ball and spin off the middle finger.

 

[maccca]

Hey Saddo, I emailed Jenner yesterday with my theory. I dont know if I will get a response, he may contact Mallett and confirm there is some nut out there with this crazy contention about Grimmetts flipper.

 

[sadspinner]

Hey Saddo, I emailed Jenner yesterday with my theory. I dont know if I will get a response, he may contact Mallett and confirm there is some nut out there with this crazy contention about Grimmetts flipper.

He might not have a clue Macca. I seem to know you somewhere. Are you a migratory bird as well in search of a new nest? Be careful these eminent gentleman may think you are harassing them, or else they are practicing it intensely.

 

[maccca]

That is how I bowl my leg breaks as well. Thumb and index finger on ball and spin off the middle finger.

That was the way former Australian legspinner Kerry O' Keefe gripped the ball, he was fairly successful but not a big spinner, in fact his stock ball was a toppie you could say.
I saw him close up as he played for my old club, Western Suburbs Newcastle and he coached us youngsters a bit, but spent most of his time with the club in the bar!

 

[maccca]

He might not have a clue Macca. I seem to know you somewhere. Are you a migratory bird as well in search of a new nest? Be careful these eminent gentleman may think you are harassing them, or else they are practicing it intensely.

Yes I am hassling them, if they grabbed a ball any ball, and read Grimmetts instructions they would soon realise the potential of his topspinning ' flipper". I have never seen a delivery that seems to gather so much pace off the wicket, it seems to defy science.

 

[sadspinner]

That was the way former Australian legspinner Kerry O' Keefe gripped the ball, he was fairly successful but not a big spinner, in fact his stock ball was a toppie you could say.
I saw him close up as he played for my old club, Western Suburbs Newcastle and he coached us youngsters a bit, but spent most of his time with the club in the bar!

Yes I hear he is very chirpy. I read somewhere that he would like to coach Chawla the young indian leggie. He noted he could help him bowl a bigger legspinner. From what you say there is not much hope of seeing chawla bowl a big legbreak so.

Did you play grade cricket in the past Macca? You seem to have interacted with many of the top aussie leggies.

 

[sadspinner]

Yes I am hassling them, if they grabbed a ball any ball, and read Grimmetts instructions they would soon realise the potential of his topspinning ' flipper". I have never seen a delivery that seems to gather so much pace off the wicket, it seems to defy science.

As i told you I tried it yesterday. Got some topspin on it but it turned like a fastish offbreak. Must try it over a shorter distance though first when I have time.

 

[maccca]

Yes I hear he is very chirpy. I read somewhere that he would like to coach Chawla the young indian leggie. He noted he could help him bowl a bigger legspinner. From what you say there is not much hope of seeing chawla bowl a big legbreak so.

Did you play grade cricket in the past Macca? You seem to have interacted with many of the top aussie leggies.

Mainly second grade, but we have had a few good legspinners from around here. Bob Holland was another one I saw up close and Johnny Watkins played here as well as Colin Mc Cool, my Dad played against Mc Cool in the local competition in the early 60,s. Mc Cool was getting on a bit by then but still played on well into the 1960,s in grade cricket.

 

[sadspinner]

Mainly second grade, but we have had a few good legspinners from around here. Bob Holland was another one I saw up close and Johnny Watkins played here as well as Colin Mc Cool, my Dad played against Mc Cool in the local competition in the early 60,s. Mc Cool was getting on a bit by then but still played on well into the 1960,s in grade cricket.

Rememder Holland. Remember hearing commentary on bbc radio in the early morning in some ashes series.. God McCool as well. I am envious.Do not know Watkins though, he is not on my radar.

This is good though. He seems my type of guy. Stackpole dubbed him "possibly the luckiest player ever to represent Australia", and recalled how in one of the tour games "he almost hit the square-leg umpire with the widest full-toss I've seen."

 

[maccca]

As i told you I tried it yesterday. Got some topspin on it but it turned like a fastish offbreak. Must try it over a shorter distance though first when I have time.

Yes , if you dont set it off right you get an offbreak, which seems a handy ball, but Grimmett reckons that offbreak is not much use as it leaves the pitch too slow. It is harder to bowl than the underhand flipper, which is saying something, it makes the backspinning flipper seem like the lazy way to get there, which might explain its fall into disuse. Grimmett started off over short distances and it took him a few years to bowl it over 22 yards in a match.

 

[sadspinner]

Yes , if you dont set it off right you get an offbreak, which seems a handy ball, but Grimmett reckons that offbreak is not much use as it leaves the pitch too slow. It is harder to bowl than the underhand flipper, which is saying something, it makes the backspinning flipper seem like the lazy way to get there, which might explain its fall into disuse. Grimmett started off over short distances and it took him a few years to bowl it over 22 yards in a match.

Ok , should suss it till I am 80 so as dave says.I think dave is asleep for tomorrow or doing some mental visualisation or whatever they call it. Hope he is not practicing outside his house at this time on our side of the equator.