Socceroos and Australian Football

[Burgey]

Newcastle good value for their point away in the ACL last night IMO. A pretty good effort and unlucky not to win TBH.

 

[speirz]

Newcastle good value for their point away in the ACL last night IMO. A pretty good effort and unlucky not to win TBH.

Was actually a surprisingly good game to watch I thought, but Nagoya probably deserved their goal on weight of possession alone.

 

[Burgey]

Was actually a surprisingly good game to watch I thought, but Nagoya probably deserved their goal on weight of possession alone.

Yeah, well at least both sides in that game turned up.

Mariners were a disgrace last night. Should forfeit any remaining matches.

Dire.

 

[speirz]

Yeah, well at least both sides in that game turned up.

Mariners were a disgrace last night. Should forfeit any remaining matches.

Dire.

I only caught bits and pieces of the game, but forfeiting sounds like it would be less embarrassing.

 

[chaminda_00]

Reckon A-League sides should forfiet the ACL unless the take out the salary cap for that comp. Waste of time when you up against side with 2-3 times the wages of your side.

Yeah I know the Reds made the final, but that was cus they a had few imports suited to the style of football.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Waste of time when you up against side with 2-3 times the wages of your side.

So...Man Utd should be the only participant in UEFA. Makes sense.

 

[chaminda_00]

So...Man Utd should be the only participant in UEFA. Makes sense.

The difference is we force the disadvantage on ourseleves. Victory, Sydney FC, Central Coast and Gold Coast could afford sides with similar wages to the Korean and Chinese sides if they were allowed. Would go broke if they don't make the quarters, but they could still afford those sides. We would still be below some Mid East sides and Japanese sides. But atleast we would be on a closer playing played.

 

[speirz]

The difference is we force the disadvantage on ourseleves. Victory, Sydney FC, Central Coast and Gold Coast could afford sides with similar wages to the Korean and Chinese sides if they were allowed. Would go broke if they don't make the quarters, but they could still afford those sides. We would still be below some Mid East sides and Japanese sides. But atleast we would be on a closer playing played.

Competing in the Champions League shouldn't be the basis for our national competition though. At this stage the main aim of the A-League should be to prepare future international players. To do this we basically need as many viably competitive teams as possible so we can get more youngsters through and overseas. Personally I don't want to see the likes of Culina returning here already, simply because even with all of our internationals of that level back home, the competition still wouldn't be all that strong.

 

[chaminda_00]

Competing in the Champions League shouldn't be the basis for our national competition though. At this stage the main aim of the A-League should be to prepare future international players. To do this we basically need as many viably competitive teams as possible so we can get more youngsters through and overseas. Personally I don't want to see the likes of Culina returning here already, simply because even with all of our internationals of that level back home, the competition still wouldn't be all that strong.

The thing though is that the league doesn't really produce future internationals. There not too many guys that have come from the juniors of A-League sides and come through and looked like internationals before they left to go to Europe. With the current standard of the league all it does is produce players that might be good enough to play in Europe or now the stronger Asian leagues.

The early seasons gave false sence of the quality of the league as their were a lot of players that came back. But the last two seasons there have been plenty that have gone back to Europe (and now Asia) and not many that have come back. Apart from the odd player like Culina, most are coming back to start their careers again. Not many are at the peak of their careers. I would be very surprised if the standard next season isn't much better then the old NSL. At present the extra sides are just reducing the depth not bring more players back.

The cap not all the blame. But it does limit sides that can get decent players back and keep the top players. You need a cap, but the cap hasn't increased at the levels required to keep improving the league and staying on par with even the local player market.

 

[speirz]

The thing though is that the league doesn't really produce future internationals. There not too many guys that have come from the juniors of A-League sides and come through and looked like internationals before they left to go to Europe. With the current standard of the league all it does is produce players that might be good enough to play in Europe or now the stronger Asian leagues.

The early seasons gave false sence of the quality of the league as their were a lot of players that came back. But the last two seasons there have been plenty that have gone back to Europe (and now Asia) and not many that have come back. Apart from the odd player like Culina, most are coming back to start their careers again. Not many are at the peak of their careers. I would be very surprised if the standard next season isn't much better then the old NSL. At present the extra sides are just reducing the depth not bring more players back.

The cap not all the blame. But it does limit sides that can get decent players back and keep the top players. You need a cap, but the cap hasn't increased at the levels required to keep improving the league and staying on par with even the local player market.

It's been only 4 seasons though. The players I'm referring to are the likes of Djite, Burns, Rukavytsya, Holland, Carney etc. who have gone to Europe, and could well end up forming the backbone of the national side in the future. We can't sell these players to Europe where they'll really develop if they can't get a run ahead of returning players. For instance if someone like Skoko came back now, all they would be doing is holding out a younger player who might actually have a future in the national team. Basically I don't think it will ever be possible for us to have a strong enough league to select mostly from our domestic clubs, so the next best thing is to have a team that is made up mostly of players who were developed at domestic clubs.

Also, if you start bringing back players like Chris Coyne or Richard Garcia, you'd most probably miss out on the developments that they've made recently overseas with their respective clubs, and weaken the national side in that respect.

 

[chaminda_00]

It's been only 4 seasons though. The players I'm referring to are the likes of Djite, Burns, Rukavytsya, Holland, Carney etc. who have gone to Europe, and could well end up forming the backbone of the national side in the future. We can't sell these players to Europe where they'll really develop if they can't get a run ahead of returning players. For instance if someone like Skoko came back now, all they would be doing is holding out a younger player who might actually have a future in the national team. Basically I don't think it will ever be possible for us to have a strong enough league to select mostly from our domestic clubs, so the next best thing is to have a team that is made up mostly of players who were developed at domestic clubs.

Also, if you start bringing back players like Chris Coyne or Richard Garcia, you'd most probably miss out on the developments that they've made recently overseas with their respective clubs, and weaken the national side in that respect.

I was actually referring more to getting guys like say Kasey Wehrman and Danny Invincibile. Who have never reached any high levels in Europe, but continue to play their as they prefer the tougher leagues of Europe. You would really like to get those types of guys back and that the difference between our league and the Korean, Japanese and Chinese leagues. They get those type of players back who could play in similar leagues and prefer to play at home. Be it for more money or the fact that the leagues are stronger then the Australian league.

The other thing is that some would argue that the likes of Burns are a couple years behind in development then someone like Troisi cus they went to Europe earlier. That not a good sign in youth and reserve football in Europe is better then the A-League.

Yeah it only been four years, but if you compare it to the development of other similar leagues they are a long way behind.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I was actually referring more to getting guys like say Kasey Wehrman and Danny Invincibile. Who have never reached any high levels in Europe, but continue to play their as they prefer the tougher leagues of Europe.

Or the cash (which comes back to your salary cap point, I suppose). Though Wehrman was tax listed with around $125k after tax here.

Mind you, what the hell do you want him for? IIRC he gets more yellow cards than accurate passes. As stephen says, you're probably better off playing younger Australians, even though it may hurt the club sides' chances in Asia.

 

[chaminda_00]

Or the cash (which comes back to your salary cap point, I suppose). Wehrman probably earns $300-350k (in your money) here, ftr.

Mind you, what the hell do you want him for? IIRC he gets more yellow cards than accurate passes. As stephen says, you're probably better off playing younger Australians, even though it may hurt the club sides' chances in Asia.

You need experience to guide the youth. The difference between say Roar and the Reds over the last couple seasons. Is one side had a decent amount of players in their mid to late 20s with some decent youngsters. And the other side had a lot of young talent and a couple 30 plus experienced players that were injuried or suspensed frequenty.

If you got sides that are just full of 18-23yos and then a few old timers and guys that couldn't make it in Europe. What the difference between that at your average reserves in Europe? Your not going to develop youngsters unless you up against quality players and have experienced players to guide you around.

If you take out mid aged players, like what likely to happen with the current trends in the A-League. The top aussie players would be better off playing youth and reserve football in Europe.

 

[GIMH]

So is this the thread I need to keep track of my hero???

 

[chaminda_00]

Yeah until he gets injuried.

 

[GIMH]

He never really got injured much for us until this season. Might have made a difference these past few games as well

Anyhow, is he likely to be earning a decent wedge?

 

[chaminda_00]

Not sure if he is their marquee player. But if so I doubt he will be earning much more then the rest of the their squad. They don't have a massive budget to play with. Would be in the top 10-15 earners in the league though. Less then what you guys were paying I dare say.

 

[GIMH]

Fair enough. Have no idea what he was earning for us, at a rough guess I'd say about £100k a year

 

[ripper868]

Assuming this is Messr Fowler?

The fury trains just behind my office block actually.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Assuming this is Messr Fowler?

Nope. Chris Greenacre.