B.Scott4England
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Quite right too.
Glovework is unrivalled. He just needs to learn how to bat and the world is his oyster
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Phil Mustard
- Thread starter Howsie
- Start date
Glovework is unrivalled. He just needs to learn how to bat and the world is his oyster
B.Scott4England
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Nash can bat much better but Scott's glovework is astronomically better
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
As I say - I've followed his career for Sussex pretty closely, and he's just never done anything. So, as a result, I don't think he can do anything for England.
I've said it 100 times - cricketers who are not even good enough for county cricket have virtually no chance of being good enough for international.
He's been regularly in the runs for Sussex in the longer game. He's been mostly out of them in the shorter. Regardless of what his form's like (and remember, it is indeed possible to be in-form in one and out-of-form in the other - look at Nick Knight in 2002 for instance).
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
An exaggeration, TSTL. Scott maaaaaaaay be a better gloveman than Nash but there's no way the difference is "astronomical".
Nash is a pretty decent wicketkeeper.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
No, he'd been bumped down the order because he'd opened for 2 years in the ODI side and accomplished absolutely nothing.
He's had 26 or 27 goes at opening the innings and has made ONE fifty, and averages about 25.
Unlike Mustard, Prior doesn't have a high strike rate as a saving grace either. The typical Prior innings opening was to stumble along to 25 off 40 or so balls, before generally top edging a pull shot straight up in the air.
He's a perfectly decent batsman at First Class and Test level, but he's a woeful short-form batsman.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Hmmm. It is human nature to fund apparently significant patterns in randomly-distributed data. And if you look at a big enough sample size you will sooner or later find an example of someone whose stats appear to show them to be "in form" in one format of the game and "out of form" in the other. I would treat the Nick Knight example with extreme caution for this reason. Besides which, it's massively counter-intuitive.
There's been some quite interesting research in baseball (which Steven Jay Gould wrote about) suggesting that the concept of form - or at least of the "hot streak" - is actually illusory and that the fact that you scored runs in recent innings has no correlation to whether you'll score runs in your next one. However the human brain doesn't perceive it that way, and we easily fool ourselves into discerning a pattern - ie "form" - when in reality none exists.
Neil Pickup
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Well this analysis is very straightforward to replicate in cricket.
A basic run of Pearson product-moment correlation coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, regressing runs scored in one innings against runs scored in the next, follows for Sachin Tendulkar - and completely backs up Gould's analysis. No correlation of any statistical substance, and if you increase the regression sample as I do in the second graph (correlating innings score versus average in the last ten innings, you actually get a negative relationship. I have a feeling this deserves a thread of its own.
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aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Well firstly you got to start judging Prior ODI career from WI/IND 07. So it can't be that much games, since before that summer he was a useless selection.
The series that really exposed him was IND this winter, since before he was showing decent potential to be as useful top-order option. But it was always an experiment, i'd say he could have been a good pitch hiter if Trescothick was still playing.
The problem with Prior basically came down to the fact he was seen or given to role as the main opener.
As i just said, his role as a decent finisher @ 7. Is very possible given his current form. Of course Foster can challenge him in the coming months & maybe even Davies as an opener.
But Prior should be given this summers ODI vs WI & AUS.
rivera213
U19 Vice-Captain
And you're completely unbiased.....
I don't mind if Ben Scott gets in the England team, but I've been a big James Foster fan for ages- before he played his test for England.
I don't think Scott's glovework is unrivalled. The debate of whether he's as good as Foster is valid, but Scott's glovework is only unrivalled if you take out Foster, Nash and Davies from the WK's in this country imo.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
17 innings as opener since the World Cup, 1 50+ score (52), ave 26, SR 76
In other words, still dire.
edit: granted, it's a small sample size, but he's done bugger all any time he's batted down the order either.
Given his mediocre career List A average of 27, combined with his poor to average keeping skills, and it's hard to find any reason to continue selecting him in the ODI side.
In other words, still dire.
edit: granted, it's a small sample size, but he's done bugger all any time he's batted down the order either.
Given his mediocre career List A average of 27, combined with his poor to average keeping skills, and it's hard to find any reason to continue selecting him in the ODI side.
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zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
12th best career average for a keeper in ODI history (25+ innings).
I'm sure you'll have been pleased to see him score another important century today
Furball
Evil Scotsman
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
He's certainly a poor keeper - that's not up for debate either.
The jury's out on his OD batting, for me.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Exactly. Lets see if in a much more comfortable middle-order role, if he can translate some of that test form into ODI set-up this summer at least.
Not upto it as a limited overs batsmen, certainly not a specialist batsmen if they plan to play him along side Foster (who's a better choice IMO). Against the top draw, he can't score quickly enough on the flat decks, and on the tougher surfaces he isn't good enough to build. Might do better as a middle order batsmen, but England have better options in the middle order IMO. Personally I'd have Foster in a clearly defined role down the order.
When it comes to keepers I believe you pick the best young keeper and teach him how to consistently contribute with the bat, it's a long term thing, there are no quick fixes. Boucher is a great example, wasn't the best batsmen when he came in, but he's done that same lower order finishing/salvage role for so long that he's become very good at it, and obviously his keeping is top notch.
P.S. how's that South African Craig Kieswetter with the gloves?
When it comes to keepers I believe you pick the best young keeper and teach him how to consistently contribute with the bat, it's a long term thing, there are no quick fixes. Boucher is a great example, wasn't the best batsmen when he came in, but he's done that same lower order finishing/salvage role for so long that he's become very good at it, and obviously his keeping is top notch.
P.S. how's that South African Craig Kieswetter with the gloves?
rivera213
U19 Vice-Captain
Steven Davies would be your pick then, I presume?
Davies is the best young keeper-batsmen (although Kieswetter's looked impressive), but his keeping is pretty poor TBH and he doesn't strike me as a natural keeper. Not sure who's the best young keeper in England tbh.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Neither am I but Ben Brown (Sussex's 3rd choice keeper and England U19) is very highly rated.
rivera213
U19 Vice-Captain
I assumed you wouldn't be a fan of putting Kieswetter in the England team based on your Eoin Morgan opinion?
I know Kieswetter has made himself available for England, but represented SA @ U-19 level.
Your 100% right about my opinion about where he should be playing. Especially as a keeper batsmen, the quota system is on it's way out and it probably wouldn't have effected him anyway. He's done it because if he doesn't crack the national side he can still make a living as a county player.
However I still like watching good cricket being played and I've liked what I've seen of his batting, I haven't seen any of his keeping however (I'm not a great judge of keeper's ability anyway, except for Prior who is dire for all the world to see) and am wondering if he's any good?