Phil Mustard

[Richard]

I'm not too sure. Read hasn't really impressed in his limited international career. I agree he's been treated like **** and would rather him in than any of those since the '05 Ashes (barring Steven Davies who I thnk is our future WK, but not to be rushed into the side).

I wouldn't view Foster as a batting WK, just a WK who can add maybe 18-20 but doesn't put down simple chances. I don't think he's dropped as many catches in his LIFE as Jones, Prior and Ambrose have in the last 4 years.

Ambrose? How many chances has he missed? In Tests and the whole 5 ODIs he played, Ambrose's wicketkeeping was perfectly adequate. It was his batting that wasn't, quite, up to scratch, which is a shame, because I've rated his batting as having fair potential since 2001.

As for batting wicketkeepers, all wicketkeepers have to bat. Simple as. There is no longer any place for the specialist wicketkeeper. Foster may be better in the longer game than quite a few with the bat but as I say - in ODIs he is going to add precious little. 18-20 would be very optimistic (and remember 18 off 29 balls would be better-off without at the stage he's going to be coming in at). He's worse even than Prior - and that really is saying something, as Prior is a terrible OD batsman as well.

Of the options available right now (ie, not Read), I'd honestly still prefer Ambrose. He never got the remotest of chances in ODIs and he can bat decently. The trouble is he'd have to come in at five or so to be worth it.

I agree we should stop this Australia blueprint. If you have a Gilchrist then use him, if not then don't. It's not that difficult. None of our WK's are as good in either aspect yet alone both.

It's not even just Australia I don't think - I do think Duncan Fletcher was too keen on the example of Gilchrist, but I think McCullum is as much of a trouble to England currently as Gilchrist was when Geraint Jones was being pushed up to open. Irony being of course that McCullum isn't even that good a ODI opener.

 

[Howsie]

Irony being of course that McCullum isn't even that good a ODI opener

Oh hell nooooooooooooooo.

Since going back to opening the batting in late 2007, McCullum is averaging 39.73 with a strike-rate of 98.2.

I would say that's pretty decent for a opening ODI batsmen.

Cricinfo Statsguru - BB McCullum - One-Day Internationals - Batting analysis

 

[James_W]

Oh hell nooooooooooooooo.

Since going back to opening the batting in late 2007, McCullum is averaging 39.73 with a strike-rate of 98.2.

I would say that's pretty decent for a opening ODI batsmen.

Cricinfo Statsguru - BB McCullum - One-Day Internationals - Batting analysis

And even with Ireland, Scotland and Bangladesh removed;

Cricinfo Statsguru - BB McCullum - One-Day Internationals - Batting analysis

 

[Flem274*]

I think its fair to say McCullum has proved himself as a viable longterm opening option. Was looking shaky at the start of the year with his slump, but he's back up now.

As for Mustard, he sucks.

 

[Richard]

Oh hell nooooooooooooooo.

Since going back to opening the batting in late 2007, McCullum is averaging 39.73 with a strike-rate of 98.2.

I would say that's pretty decent for a opening ODI batsmen.

Cricinfo Statsguru - BB McCullum - One-Day Internationals - Batting analysis

Essentially, McCullum in that time has had 7 good consecutive innings' against England, in early-2008. Those innings were played against some of the worst catching and bowling you'll see, so don't really prove all that much.

In the other 21 against ODI-standard sides he averages 27.76. This is a far more accurate reflection of the calibre of his play.

 

[James_W]

Essentially, McCullum in that time has had 7 good consecutive innings' against England, in early-2008. Those innings were played against some of the worst catching and bowling you'll see, so don't really prove all that much.

In the other 21 against ODI-standard sides he averages 27.76. This is a far more accurate reflection of the calibre of his play.

Cricinfo Statsguru - BB McCullum - One-Day Internationals - Batting analysis

Same as the query in my last post, except with England and West Indies removed this time. So this shows his record as an opener in the last two years in matches against India, South Africa and Australia, the best three teams in the world.

From 14 innings, he averages 32.57 with a strike-rate of 78.08 and 4 half centuries. It's nothing sensational, but it is a more than acceptable record against the top 3 bowling attacks in world cricket.

 

[rivera213]

Ambrose? How many chances has he missed? In Tests and the whole 5 ODIs he played, Ambrose's wicketkeeping was perfectly adequate

Can't think of any specific moments but I do remember him putting some down, easy to moderate chances. New Zealand rings a bell. I definitely remember myself and my Dad moaning about the string of poor to average WK's we've had post-Stewart and his name was in there.

As for batting wicketkeepers, all wicketkeepers have to bat. Simple as. There is no longer any place for the specialist wicketkeeper.

Would you trade the dropped chances of a Prior or Geraint Jones for 30 extra runs though? (which is all they really add).

With the more batsmen friendly wickets, I don't think having a batting WK is as essential as coaches around the world think. Foster would average 20 runs per innings at test level I think, maybe less against the South Africa's of the world. But then he'd make up for it clinging on to chances Prior and the other hacks wouldn't, let only actually know where to stand when a spinner is bowling!

It's not even just Australia I don't think - I do think Duncan Fletcher was too keen on the example of Gilchrist, but I think McCullum is as much of a trouble to England currently as Gilchrist was when Geraint Jones was being pushed up to open. Irony being of course that McCullum isn't even that good a ODI opener.

Yeah, actually I do remember Fletcher saying something like "batting down to 8 including the WK making centuries" in an interview which is the time we had an average at best spinner in Ashley Giles batting at 8!

 

[Richard]

Cricinfo Statsguru - BB McCullum - One-Day Internationals - Batting analysis

Same as the query in my last post, except with England and West Indies removed this time. So this shows his record as an opener in the last two years in matches against India, South Africa and Australia, the best three teams in the world.

From 14 innings, he averages 32.57 with a strike-rate of 78.08 and 4 half centuries. It's nothing sensational, but it is a more than acceptable record against the top 3 bowling attacks in world cricket.

As I say - I posted the stats I feel are of significance. I do not expect McCullum to have any real sustained success as a ODI opener, and he certainly has not had any yet.

 

[Richard]

Can't think of any specific moments but I do remember him putting some down, easy to moderate chances. New Zealand rings a bell. I definitely remember myself and my Dad moaning about the string of poor to average WK's we've had post-Stewart and his name was in there.

I recall Ambrose putting down no straightforward chances and maybe 1 or 2 (that's maybe - I also don't recall any for certain, except in the ODIs at home to NZ, and I'm talking about Tests) in his 10 Tests - which is pretty much acceptable, really.

The only unconvincing thing about Ambrose is his propensity to catch the ball in his wrists rather than palms. But it doesn't so far seem to have cost anything much.

Would you trade the dropped chances of a Prior or Geraint Jones for 30 extra runs though? (which is all they really add).

With the more batsmen friendly wickets, I don't think having a batting WK is as essential as coaches around the world think. Foster would average 20 runs per innings at test level I think, maybe less against the South Africa's of the world. But then he'd make up for it clinging on to chances Prior and the other hacks wouldn't, let only actually know where to stand when a spinner is bowling!

Foster I actually feel would offer more as a Test batsman than Geraint Jones ended-up doing (but remember his wicketkeeping eventually became more than acceptable). I hope he could do better than an average of 20 - 25-28 would be a minimum. But in ODIs I feel he has precisely nothing to offer.

I have never once suggested I'm happy with Prior keeping for England in Tests (or ODIs) - not once. I am totally not happy with him batting, anywhere, in ODIs either. But equally, to say that batting of wicketkeepers is irrelevant is folly. A wicketkeeper must be able to contribute with the bat. Foster could in Tests. I don't think he could in ODIs. Ambrose could, IMO, and his wicketkeeping, while lesser than Foster's or Read's, is acceptable.

If Read were to return from the ICL matters may be made more interesting still.

 

[aussie]

If Read were to return from the ICL matters may be made more interesting still.

No. Prior should remain keeper in all 3 formats.

 

[Furball]

No. Prior should remain keeper in all 3 formats.

No.

There's a case (albeit an extremely unconvincing one) to retain him in Tests.

However, his limited overs batting is utterly dreadful.

 

[Pothas]

Tests I think is definetly worth persisting with, if his standard can keeping can be brought up to passable standards then he is a way better option than anyone else we have right now.

 

[Uppercut]

I'd retain him purely for batting and bring in a real wicket keeper. Bat Flintoff at 7, play three seamers + Swann. Maybe have Samit Patel around as a fifth option.

 

[rivera213]

I'd retain him purely for batting and bring in a real wicket keeper. Bat Flintoff at 7, play three seamers + Swann. Maybe have Samit Patel around as a fifth option.

So:

Strauss
Cook
?
Pietersen
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Foster (for example as WK since he's by far the best gloveman we have)
Broad (?)
Swann
Anderson (?)

Do you think Anderson and Broad will get enough wickets though?

Part of the problem with Flintoff has been the fact he's had to bowl long spells because our opening bowlers haven't done the business.

 

[Howsie]

I recall Ambrose putting down no straightforward chances and maybe 1 or 2 (that's maybe - I also don't recall any for certain, except in the ODIs at home to NZ, and I'm talking about Tests) in his 10 Tests - which is pretty much acceptable, really.

That drop of How over in England was a shocker, How skied it and Ambrose run back and dropped a sitter.

 

[Richard]

No. Prior should remain keeper in all 3 formats.

He has a case to remain in the Test side based on his batting, but none whatsoever to keep wicket, nor to play ODIs as either wicketkeeper-batsman or specialist batsman.

And obviously I couldn't care less whether he plays Twenty20 Internationals or not.

 

[Richard]

That drop of How over in England was a shocker, How skied it and Ambrose run back and dropped a sitter.

Yeah - that was in the First ODI, IIRR. I don't recall him dropping anything in Tests, though that's not to say he neccessarily didn't.

 

[King Pietersen]

Tim Ambrose faces losing the gloves - Times Online

First result on Google, Ambrose dropping Amla when he was on 58.

 

[Richard]

So, so far that's one drop in 10 Tests. Not bad, really.

Any more anywhere?

 

[zaremba]

Here he is dropping Graeme Smith in the 1st Test at Lord's.​