zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I've no idea, really. We've no way of telling. I was just making the point that they have both been marked out - Clarke perhaps more than Marshall - as possessing the ability to bowl with tremendous pace.
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Fastest over EVER bowled in test cricket history
- Thread starter HMas
- Start date
archie mac
International Coach
Marshall when in Aust in 1984-85 was very quick
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
He has agreed to do one via email. Now we need questions!
Burgey
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Manan,
Great get if we can have Pyke do that interview.
Can you ask him whether, in his view, there's a physiological limit to how fast bowlers can go, and if he has in his mind what it might be? Especially given some of the pre-speed gun claims of how quick Thommo and others may well have been.
I'm not sure, but I think he may have been the doctor who got Lillee back on track with his injury. I'm at work and don't have access to Lillee's Art of Fast Bowling - I have it at home and will see if it was indeed Pyke. If it was, that might be an interesting issue to broach with him as well, because IIRC the treatment Lillee underwent was way ahead of its time.
Edit; I've Googled Dr Pyke and it seems he was indeed the pioneering doctor at issue. From the MCG website:
A former schoolmaster of Dennis's at Belmont High and then exercise physiologist at the University of Western Australia, Dr Frank Pyke, arranged a sequence of back strengthening routines. And the great bowler's running action was adjusted under the guidance of Austin Robertson Senior, an experienced athletic coach who had contested the world professional sprint championship series in Melbourne in the 1930s and was a noted footballer with the famous South Melbourne team of that period.
The physical training programming and supervision of Pyke and Robertson, allied with Lillee's extreme determination, provided a winning recovery formula. Dennis had done plenty of training prior to the injury but according to his wicketkeeping accomplice, Rod Marsh: "He did a heck of a lot more after it."
A critical aspect of this rehabilitation was the need for the bowler to modify his overall method, with the objective of minimising, perhaps eliminating, any possibility of further back strain. "He changed everything," said Marsh, "his running action, approach to the wicket and his delivery. All of this to achieve optimum economy of style."
Great get if we can have Pyke do that interview.
Can you ask him whether, in his view, there's a physiological limit to how fast bowlers can go, and if he has in his mind what it might be? Especially given some of the pre-speed gun claims of how quick Thommo and others may well have been.
I'm not sure, but I think he may have been the doctor who got Lillee back on track with his injury. I'm at work and don't have access to Lillee's Art of Fast Bowling - I have it at home and will see if it was indeed Pyke. If it was, that might be an interesting issue to broach with him as well, because IIRC the treatment Lillee underwent was way ahead of its time.
Edit; I've Googled Dr Pyke and it seems he was indeed the pioneering doctor at issue. From the MCG website:
A former schoolmaster of Dennis's at Belmont High and then exercise physiologist at the University of Western Australia, Dr Frank Pyke, arranged a sequence of back strengthening routines. And the great bowler's running action was adjusted under the guidance of Austin Robertson Senior, an experienced athletic coach who had contested the world professional sprint championship series in Melbourne in the 1930s and was a noted footballer with the famous South Melbourne team of that period.
The physical training programming and supervision of Pyke and Robertson, allied with Lillee's extreme determination, provided a winning recovery formula. Dennis had done plenty of training prior to the injury but according to his wicketkeeping accomplice, Rod Marsh: "He did a heck of a lot more after it."
A critical aspect of this rehabilitation was the need for the bowler to modify his overall method, with the objective of minimising, perhaps eliminating, any possibility of further back strain. "He changed everything," said Marsh, "his running action, approach to the wicket and his delivery. All of this to achieve optimum economy of style."
Last edited:
Migara
International Coach
Bingo! the horizontal vector of the speed is low in bouncers than in yorkers.
archie mac
International Coach
I did not see Holding in 76 but I would think just as quick, yes
Uppercut
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Ask him to elaborate a little on the differences in methods of measuring speed and whether they've changed since his 1979 study. Was the horizontal vector used, or the ball's "actual speed", and are things done any differently today?
Could also ask him, as an aside, who the fastest bowler he's ever seen is.
Could also ask him, as an aside, who the fastest bowler he's ever seen is.
Uppercut
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I'm not convinced the horizontal speed is used though. I've seen Brett Lee bowl a 95.3mph bouncer, and if that's just the horizontal component he's bowling pretty impossibly fast. Also, i don't understand why they would use horizontal components. The technology's there to measure actual speed, why would they just use velocity in the vague direction of the ball?
Where did you hear that the horizontal vector is used? What's the source?
archie mac
International Coach
Big arse?
Migara
International Coach
The speed is measured using a radar gun and it can only work in horizontal axis. Vertical vector will be imposible to measure as each bowler will release the ball at different points when vertical vector is considered. The horizontal vector does not change much with over / round the wicket as the speed gun is about 100m back from it's receiver, and the above difference is a matter of 2m.
It's the way basically how the speed gun of the cop works.
Uppercut
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Speed measurements can indeed work in two axis, the technology's certainly there. It's a case of calculating the distance between the position of the ball in one picture and that in another picture a split-second later. Modern speed-testing equipment can account for all of this, but perhaps they don't bother.
G.I.Joe
International Coach
I don't think measuring horizontal speed accounts for the difference we see in speeds between bouncers and fuller length deliveries.
Taking the height from which the ball is delivered to be 7.5 feet the difference between the horizontal speeds for a yorker and a bouncer (assumed to land at mid-pitch) delivered at the same speed out of the hand of 140 kmph is only 3.3 kmph.
Taking the height from which the ball is delivered to be 7.5 feet the difference between the horizontal speeds for a yorker and a bouncer (assumed to land at mid-pitch) delivered at the same speed out of the hand of 140 kmph is only 3.3 kmph.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Interesting. Is 7.5 feet an underestimate though?
It doesnt affect it much. With 8 feet you get a 3.73 kmph difference.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Those 273 metres per hour can make a big difference. It's more or less the pace at which I like to live my life
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I was meaning did Marshall, in '84/85, appear to be quicker than Holding, in '84/85?I did not see Holding in 76 but I would think just as quick, yes