biased indian
International Coach
with the form we have shown off late tendulkar will struggle to go on top of that list
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Winning in every country
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
oldmancraigy
U19 12th Man
Wow.
Are there still people around who think the recent Aussie era (ending with McGrath/ Warne/ Gilchrist/ Hayden/ Langer) wasn't the best of all time?
Not many unless they have chemical locha in their brains. Those stats coupled with Warne's stats of 92 ****ing wins, are more than proof of how bloody dominant that team was.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Well, it lasted a long time and that helps in such stats. Then the gap with the other sides reduced considerably and that helps for sure.
I agree Australia had a great run although I think the side that played for Australia from December 1972 (Pakistan series) to March 1977 (Centenary Test) was a great side.
- They played 36 Tests in this period, lost 4, won 21 and drew the rest.
- Of the 10 series they won 8 and drew two (Pakistan at home and New Zealand away.
- The top five batsmen of this side were
- Ian Chappell : 2634 at 53.8 - 7 centuries
- Ian Redpath : 2081 at 50.8 - 6 centuries
- G. Chappell : 3046 at 58.6 - 10 centuries
- DougWalters : 2060 at 51.5 - 6 centuries
- RB McCosker : 1243 at 47.8 - 3 centuries
- Ian Redpath : 2081 at 50.8 - 6 centuries
- G. Chappell : 3046 at 58.6 - 10 centuries
- DougWalters : 2060 at 51.5 - 6 centuries
- RB McCosker : 1243 at 47.8 - 3 centuries
Thay also had Paul Sheahan, Gary Cosier and Graham Yallop but they played fewer games.
There top five bowlers were
- Dennis Lillee
- Jeff Thomson
- Max Walker
- Gary Gilmour
- Asley Mallett
That list needs no introduction. Besides them they had Terry Jenner, Bob Massie, Geoff Dymock.
As keeper they had Rodney Marsh.
This was some side.
And its not as if the opposition was weak.
Here are the bowling attacks of the exact same periods (top bowlers of the top countries)
Pakistan
- Imran Khan
- Sarfaraz Nawaz
- Intekhab Alam
- Mushtaq Ahmed
West Indies
- Andy Roberts
- Mike Holding
- Lance Gibbs
- Garry Sobers
England
- John Snow
- Chris Old
- Bob Willis
- Derryk Underwood
India
- Bedi
- Chandrashekhar
- Prasanna
- Venkatraghvan
New Zealand
- Hadlee
- Collinge
- Howarth
These are the only sides they played. There were no minnows. The youngest entrants (Pakistan) had been in Test cricket for a quarter of a century. And against these bowlers, Australia's fabulous batting line up scored like true champions.
Its not as if the bowlers had bunnies facing them the world cricket had some really good batsmen too. Here is a sample.
England
- Amiss
- Edrich
- Boycott
- Tony Greig
- Fletcher
West Indies
- Fredricks
- Grrenidge
- Richards
- Kallicharan
- Lloyd
Pakistan
- Majid Khan
- Sadiq Mohammad
- Zaheer Abbas
- Javed Miandad
- Mushtaq Mohd
- Imran Khan
- Intikhab Alam
India
- Gavaskar
- Vishwanath
- Amarnath
- Wadekar
New Zealand
- Glenn Turner
- Bevan Congdon
- Mark Burgess
There is are some legends in those sides. Yet the Australian bowlers dominated the period completely. Actually the strength of the Rest of the World (besides Australia) batting can be seen from the fact that despite their dominance, most Australian bowlers during this period, have bowling averages higher than their career averages. That is not an indication of their not being at their peak but of the huge talent that abounded in the world at that time.
The West Indian period was to take over but frankly, I do not think that the great West Indian side of the 80.s had to contend with as great opposition as the Australians of the first half of the 70's id.
For me how many matches a team wins consecutively is not what decides who is the greatest. If that was the case Hanif with 499 or Walcott with five consecutive hundreds or some such silly stat should be used for deciding the greatest batsman till that time.
I have been watching Test cricket for 48 years now and I do not think there has been a side who has dominated the world - and a world of great opposition- as did the Australians under Ian Chappell.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
As strong as Australia under Steve Waugh?
Justin Langer - 4064 runs @ 48.38, 15 hundreds
Matthew Hayden - 4105 runs @ 67.29, 16 hundreds
Ricky Ponting - 4293 runs @ 64.07, 17 hundreds
Steve Waugh - 3714 runs @ 52.30, 15 hundreds
Damien Martyn - 1818 runs @ 47.84, 4 hundreds
Adam Gilchrist - 3131 runs @ 56.92, 9 hundreds
Glenn McGrath - 217 wkts @ 20.06
Jason Gillespie - 143 wkts @ 25.67
Brett Lee - 137 wkts @ 30.90
Shane Warne - 175 wkts @ 26.57
G.I.Joe
International Coach
How do we interpret Kapil's presence as the only bowler on that list?
Athlai
Not Terrible
That he was India's only bowler at the time as they played a team of XI batsman with him at number 11.
G.I.Joe
International Coach
It must be true because it makes sense
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Good show but I thought my point was that they faced better opposition or did I forget to mention it ?
Slifer
International Captain
I dont think the recent Australian was the best of all time there i said it. Do i have "chemical locha" in my brain?
Slifer
International Captain
Impressed by ur knowledge of the game and all but i have to say i wholeheartedly disagree with ur assesment of the Australian team of the 70s vs the WI of the 70s and 80s. First of all, the teams that Australia supposedly dominated were the same teams the WI beat home and away during their period of dominance (late 70s to mid 80s). Australia of the said period (70s) never won in the Sub continent. I have more to say but i await ur response to do as such.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Thats okay
Its your opinion and I respect that I have no problem discussing the matter but I have no intention to get into an argument. If the latter is what it comes down to, you will pardon me foe abruptly shutting off
1. Why do you say "supposedly" dominated. Did I not give the figures of there Test wins and series wins for the period or maybe you missed it. Their domination was complete. Although I must admit that South Africa were potential the stronger side as they had shown a couple of years earlier by beating Australia 4-0 but were unfortunately banned after that.
2. Have you checked whether the players of all these countries remained unchanged over the ten year period following summer of 1977 ? Its quite easy to do that. Just go to this page, fill the name of the team concerned and the period concerned in DD/MM/YY format for the beginning and end of the period and you will get the batting and bowling figures of all the players who played in Tests for that side in that period. Take the bowlers who bowled the most overs and the batsmen who scored the most runs and you will get the major players for the period.
You may find that the teams had changed.
Not all became weak though.
But its an interesting exercise and I did the leg work for the earlier period why dont you help me with these and we can discuss further
By the way, I have no hesitation to agree that the West Indian side of the 80's was devastating as well. In fact as far as sustained domination for a long period is concerned, thir performance from around the time australia ceded the top spot till 1994-95 is unparalleled in the history of the game.
I just feel that Australia who should have been the number one team to challenge them during this period went through a very lean patch and first under Yallop, then Kim Hughes and finally under Alan Border they struggled to keep the flag flying.
The team which had taken them to the top, beaten England 4-1 and West Indies 5-1, almost disintegrated.
After March 1977 (the centenary Test) came Packer series, Lillee did not play again for Australia for nearly three years (December 1979). Ian Chappell played just three more Tests in 1980. Redpath played no more. Ashley Mallett played just three more Tests again in 1980. Walters played five. Stackpole had retired earlier.
The team had problems first with the administrators then with the new captains. Finally Border took charge of a new side and bravely tried to build a team all over again.
They lost to England, successive series 3-0 and 3-1. They even lost 2-0 to India and twice to Pakistan - (1-0 and 3-0). The only teams they beat regularly were New Zealand and new comers Sri Lanka.
It is an interesting exercise (and discussion) comparing great sides
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
Better opposition? I wouldn't exactly say that. Yeah, they probably faced a bowler from each team that was of higher quality then the bowlers from the modern era but everyone else that was surrouding them was crap.
Rarely did any of those bowling lineups bowl in tandom. They played in the same decade, but not together. The overall bowling lineups that the Australians have had to face have been equally as good, if not better. If I went by your methods of analysing the bowlers that Australia has faced then this would be it.
Sri Lanka
- Muttiah Muralitharan
- Chaminda Vaas
- Lasith Malinga
India
- Anil Kumble
- Harbhajan Singh
- Javagal Srinath
- Ifran Pathan
- Ishant Sharma
- Zaheer Khan
England
- Andy Caddick
- Darren Gough
- Matthew Hoggard
- Stephen Harmison
- Andrew Flintoff
- Simon Jones
- Monty Panesar
Pakistan
- Wasim Akram
- Waqar Younis
- Shoaib Akhtar
- Saqlain Mushtaq
- Danish Kaneria
South Africa
- Shaun Pollock
- Allan Donald
- Makhaya Ntini
- Andre Nel
New Zealand
- Chris Cairns
- Shane Bond
- Dion Nash
- Daniel Vettori
Not to mention that our modern bowlers would've been bowling to allot of batsman avergaing over 50 in Test Cricket.
Indipper
State Regular
At least this part should make you think.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
What?
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Many will tell you that is an indication of the quality of bowling too
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Well its the same bowling that takes 20 wickets to win games more often than almost any other time in history.Many will tell you that is an indication of the quality of bowling too
Flat tracks and batsmen averaging 50+ yet they still can get results. Many will tell you that is an indication of the quality of bowling too
Just playing devils advocate