***Official India in New Zealand***

[KiWiNiNjA]

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing right? You talk as if NZ is such an abysmal side incapable of pulling off any chase above 300 in test cricket, yet you forget that the same side made a handsome 600+ in the second test match. And considering the spate of 375+ run chases we have had recently, including one from Bangladesh, it was always right on the part of Dhoni to err on the side of conservatism. The first priority is to ensure the 1-0 win, then only comes the 2-0. And considering India lost alteast 80 overs in this match, ie, almost a full day, I cannot place any blame on Dhoni being over conservative here. Atleast India managed to capture 18 NZ wickets in less than two days of play, on an easy pitch, and most teams would take it.



India did not take too much time to bowl NZ out. It is just a false perception. NZ batted for a total of 165 odd overs and lost 18 wickets within that. That is a SR of 53 balls per wicket which is extremely creditable on this pitch. I think you are overtly concentrating only on minute tactical minuses by Dhoni and totally overlooking the brilliant snippets of captaincy he displayed during the match, ie, like bringing in Tendulkar etc. If you really just want to have a go at Dhoni, go ahead. But don't care to reason them.



No still I don't. Had Ishant Sharma taken that catch, it can safely be said NZ would not have seen it to a draw today. There is an IF, but not an irrelevant comparison like taking catches to getting umpiring decisions.

Talking about umpiring decisions, don't forget that a plumb lbw towards the end of the match off Vettori was not given.
Of course it is irrelevant, just like your IF.

Of course hindsight is wonderful. But my point was that saying Dhoni wasn't at fault at all was pushing it. 600 was far too much of a lead at the time, and at the end of the match it still was.

Can't be bothered with the rest....

 

[silentstriker]

I think it makes sense. There is no team in International cricket that has played so much cricket as India in the last 2 years (Since 2007 World Cup).

India have played both most number of test matches (27) and ODIs (65) since then, SA too have played 27 tests, but only 39 ODIs. So a break is imminent and deserved.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Team records

Cricinfo Statsguru - One-Day Internationals - Team records

Also, 15 out of 27 tests India played have all been abroad. And that is really exhausting stuff.

So? It's not a break - it's just a break from Tests. Big difference.

 

[honestbharani]

Of course hindsight is wonderful. But my point was that saying Dhoni wasn't at fault at all was pushing it. 600 was far too much of a lead at the time, and at the end of the match it still was.

Can't be bothered with the rest....

I think 550 was enough... 600 was pushing it. And who knows those 10-12 overs made the difference.

 

[martin88]

So? It's not a break - it's just a break from Tests. Big difference.

Agree. However it is obvious that tests exhaust much more than ODIs, and 11 ODIs + IPL in a span of 8 months is very much bearable.

 

[martin88]

I think 550 was enough... 600 was pushing it. And who knows those 10-12 overs made the difference.

Perhaps. But who would have thought there would be a loss of 80 overs in NZ's innings at the start of their innings? At the max perhaps 50, not more.

 

[ret]

I would have put NZ in first thing in the morning on day 4 .... i usually hate missing out on away wins as we don't have that many under our belt

 

[Polo23]

Perhaps. But who would have thought there would be a loss of 80 overs in NZ's innings at the start of their innings? At the max perhaps 50, not more.

Rain was forecast and everyone knew bad light would play a part in the test before it started (due to the clocks going back). It was a poor declaration from Dhoni.

 

[martin88]

Rain was forecast and everyone knew bad light would play a part in the test before it started (due to the clocks going back). It was a poor declaration from Dhoni.

In hindsight it was not enough because India did not win the test match. Agreed.

However, rain could have easily come an hour early or an hour late, which would likely have vindicated Dhoni's decision. 80 overs, I repeat, were lost since the commencement of the 4th innings, and that is something no captain could have insured for.

 

[Jono]

Poor declaration by Dhoni yes, but I think NZ are getting off a bit. Their 2nd innings batting (yes McCullum and Southee were stiff) wasn't the best example of batting for survival.

 

[Evermind]

Completely agree.

It was well known that there was a high probability of rain on Tuesday. It was also clear that, with the stupid regulation regarding the refusal to advance playing time when the DST came into effect just after two days into the game, time would be last on all days and of course you cant make up what is lost of the fifth day. The Indian commentators take nationalistic jingoism to the limit talking about rubbing it in to justify Dhoni's batting on, on the fourth day. It was absolutely un-necessary. Criticism is also valid for the way India took "time off" from serious cricket right in the middle of the Kiwi innings in the second ha;f of the fourth day as if they (the Indians) were playing for a draw and not the other way around.

Where are all those people who came to Dravid's rescue when the controvery arose over the declaration in pakistan with Sachin at 194. Why does winning a match matter less just because you have won the series and a draw will do.

This morning a TV chanell asked Prasanna to compare Pataudi and Dhoni as captains. Prasanna gave a tongue in cheek reply about Pataudi having the attitude of a Prince while Dhoni is obviously not a prince and left it at that. I wish he had gone ahead and nailed it. Pataudi would never have batted on the fourth day and he would have attacked the Kiwis with everything for every single ball that India bowled.

Prasanna got it right in one aspect though when he said, there was a vast difference in the two teams (India and NZL) 41 years ago and there is a vast difference today too.

Yep, exactly. But don't say that to the average Indian fan. He will hail Lord Dhoni as the greatest captain ever and would've defended declaring at 900 on the morning of the 5th day if Dhoni had done that (India 10 years ago would've done that). Australia would've done it completely differently - and that's the difference between a champion side and merely good side.

 

[Evermind]

Evermind yours for one month from the day you put this on

Meh...not as bad as the previous one I had.

After a month, I'm gonna change the tagline to "******" and keep the same avatar. How's that?

 

[Maximus0723]

dam that pic is hilarious.

 

[Sanz]

Yep, exactly. But don't say that to the average Indian fan. He will hail Lord Dhoni as the greatest captain ever and would've defended declaring at 900 on the morning of the 5th day if Dhoni had done that (India 10 years ago would've done that). Australia would've done it completely differently - and that's the difference between a champion side and merely good side.

This is just ridiculous. It's a series win after almost 40 years., why would Dhoni want to take any chance at all ? Who cares what Nawab Pataudi would have done. If our old men are going to sound as grumpy(and perhaps jealous esp when their sarcastic talk about the quality of NZ side) as some of the posts are suggesting then no wonder they are not taken seriously. Hindsight is a great thing, I would have loved to hear their opinion at the end of the 3rd day.

Average Indian just wants to enjoy the moment and wants to get on with his life. Our cricketers get plenty of **** when they don't do well so it is only fair that they get praised. We won the series both ODIs and Tests, Our team dominated the NZ team throughout this tour, showed lot of character when they were down and that is enough for the fans. Whether it was1-0 or 2-0 thats for the stats junkies.

 

[Anil]

This is just ridiculous. It's a series win after almost 40 years., why would Dhoni want to take any chance at all ? Who cares what Nawab Pataudi would have done. If our old men are going to sound as grumpy(and perhaps jealous esp when their sarcastic talk about the quality of NZ side) as some of the posts are suggesting then no wonder they are not taken seriously. Hindsight is a great thing, I would have loved to hear their opinion at the end of the 3rd day.

Average Indian just wants to enjoy the moment and wants to get on with his life. Our cricketers get plenty of **** when they don't do well so it is only fair that they get praised. We won the series both ODIs and Tests, Our team dominated the NZ team throughout this tour, showed lot of character when they were down and that is enough for the fans. Whether it was1-0 or 2-0 thats for the stats junkies.

agreed, we are winning in nz after 41 years, that's a great feather in dhoni's cap...he declared well in time to push for a result and those 3 dropped catches probably cost india the match more than rain...

 

[honestbharani]

This is just ridiculous. It's a series win after almost 40 years., why would Dhoni want to take any chance at all ? Who cares what Nawab Pataudi would have done. If our old men are going to sound as grumpy(and perhaps jealous esp when their sarcastic talk about the quality of NZ side) as some of the posts are suggesting then no wonder they are not taken seriously. Hindsight is a great thing, I would have loved to hear their opinion at the end of the 3rd day.

Average Indian just wants to enjoy the moment and wants to get on with his life. Our cricketers get plenty of **** when they don't do well so it is only fair that they get praised. We won the series both ODIs and Tests, Our team dominated the NZ team throughout this tour, showed lot of character when they were down and that is enough for the fans. Whether it was1-0 or 2-0 thats for the stats junkies.

lol.. Sanz on fire.. complete AWTA..

 

[_Ed_]

Congrats to India. They played absolutely superbly.

I'm glad we showed we could compete in Napier, but we were outclassed in the other two games.

 

[SJS]

Yep, exactly. But don't say that to the average Indian fan. He will hail Lord Dhoni as the greatest captain ever and would've defended declaring at 900 on the morning of the 5th day if Dhoni had done that (India 10 years ago would've done that). Australia would've done it completely differently - and that's the difference between a champion side and merely good side[/B].

I am sorry, I dont agree with that last bit. Its NOT the difference between a champion side and a 'merely good one". I think you could do without that condescending note in that 'merely' when talking of this Indian side. They have held their own in all forms of the game and against all comers. They have earned their position in world cricket and they are surely knocking at that number 1 spot. Whether they get it or not we don't know and I am not enamoured by predictions unless they are so very obvious.

But they ARE a bloody good side and Dhoni IS a bloody good captain. The fact that you cant criticise him today is an unfortunate aside of the sporting culture maybe more in India and the sub-continent but really all over the world.

You couldn't criticise Tendulkar ten years ago. Why criticise, you couldn't even say he couldn't sing I suppose. The same was true for Gavaskar at one time. Its true for Warne, McGrath, Ponting till a few years ago, of Lara , Murali and so on.

The fact that fans dont want to hear a word against their beloved stars is mostly because it hurts their sentiments. Its almost like blasphemy. You cant say a word about prophets and religions and get away with it can you even if what you say is not really offensive. Thats how it is. Thats how emotional people get with their identification with their heroes.

Then there is another thing. Anyone disagreeing with them is wrong because he challenges their beliefs. You are not just saying Dhoni is wrong, they hear it as "You dont know a thing about captaincy and cricket". This is not what you may mean but thats how it sounds. That is why instead of answering with, "yes that may be your opinion but I am afraid I disagree" you will so often hear "That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard"

Well thats how fans are

 

[Jono]

Meh...not as bad as the previous one I had.

After a month, I'm gonna change the tagline to "******" and keep the same avatar. How's that?

You'll just lose another anti-Indian avatar bet before you have the chance.

 

[Jono]

This is just ridiculous. It's a series win after almost 40 years., why would Dhoni want to take any chance at all ? Who cares what Nawab Pataudi would have done. If our old men are going to sound as grumpy(and perhaps jealous esp when their sarcastic talk about the quality of NZ side) as some of the posts are suggesting then no wonder they are not taken seriously. Hindsight is a great thing, I would have loved to hear their opinion at the end of the 3rd day.

Average Indian just wants to enjoy the moment and wants to get on with his life. Our cricketers get plenty of **** when they don't do well so it is only fair that they get praised. We won the series both ODIs and Tests, Our team dominated the NZ team throughout this tour, showed lot of character when they were down and that is enough for the fans. Whether it was1-0 or 2-0 thats for the stats junkies.

Don't worry about Evermind, he'll find every reason possible to complain.

 

[biased indian]

Meh...not as bad as the previous one I had.

After a month, I'm gonna change the tagline to "******" and keep the same avatar. How's that?

you didnt replace any wording in the last avatar rite and you are already planning one month ahead so thats enoght to suggest which is bad for you