***Official India in New Zealand***

[oitoitoi]

Waqar Younis was incredible, if you've ever seen him play live, especially at a ground you'd realise the man was incredible, he made me want to take up fast bowling. IMO the most exciting quick bowler in the history of the game or at least in the modern era. Michael Atherton recently said that Wasim and Waqar ware the best he ever faced, especially because they took the pitch out of the equation and were always dangerous.

 

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Stoked How might get to play.

 

[Polo23]

Waqar Younis was incredible, if you've ever seen him play live, especially at a ground you'd realise the man was incredible, he made me want to take up fast bowling. IMO the most exciting quick bowler in the history of the game or at least in the modern era. Michael Atherton recently said that Wasim and Waqar ware the best he ever faced, especially because they took the pitch out of the equation and were always dangerous.

Yeah, unfortunately most people always question if that swing was ever legit or not. I think we all know ball tampering was rampant throughout the Pakistan team at that stage (and other teams also).

 

[Sanz]

Yeah, unfortunately most people always question if that swing was ever legit or not. I think we all know ball tampering was rampant throughout the Pakistan team at that stage (and other teams also).

I think we all know that the above is a stupid statement. If other teams were doing ball tampering too and were not getting the reverse swing the likes of Waqar/Wasim used to get, what is the point of making that comment ?

 

[Polo23]

I think we all know that the above is a stupid statement. If other teams were doing ball tampering too and were not getting the reverse swing the likes of Waqar/Wasim used to get, what is the point of making that comment ?

The other teams did get the reverse swing that Waqar and Wasim got, they just did it very infrequently where it seemed to be a regular thing with Pakistan (probably because the Pakistani umpires let them get away with it).

Martin Crowe's book is a good one to read about it.

Think about it, Wasim and Waqar were in the same team in the same era and were the only bowlers who got that prodigious movement. Was it seen before and has it been seen after? No.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I don't care whether they tampered with the ball or not. IF they were then they were just even-ing out the massive advantages that batsmen enjoy.

I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching any bowler more than Waqar Younis. A real pleasure to watch.

 

[Flem274*]

I don't care whether they tampered with the ball or not. They were just evening out the massive advantages that batsmen enjoy.

I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching any bowler more than Waqar Younis. A joy to watch.

Haha, awta.

Ball tampering in backyard cricket is perfectly legal if you can get away with it. In fact its encouraged.

 

[Sanz]

The other teams did get the reverse swing that Waqar and Wasim got, they just did it very infrequently where it seemed to be a regular thing with Pakistan (probably because the Pakistani umpires let them get away with it).

Yes Yes, Pakistani umpires were the ones umpiring all over the world every time Wasim/Waqar were playing. Not to forget the fact that It was the great Pakistani cricketer Imran Khan who was the biggest supporter of Neutral Umpires.

Martin Crowe's book is a good one to read about it.

Cricinfo - As old as the hills

Crowe is no paragon of virtue, The fact that he himself as the captain of his team allowed one of his players to cheat makes it even harder for me to take Mr. Crowe seriously on the issue.

Think about it, Wasim and Waqar were in the same team in the same era and were the only bowlers who got that prodigious movement. Was it seen before and has it been seen after? No.

I have thought about it long enough and It was not only in Pakistan they were getting the movement, they got it in England too and perhaps at other places as well. Not to forget Reverse swing is a pretty common and accepted these days. How much it swings is based on individual talents and there isn't any doubt that Wasim/Waqar were miles ahead in terms of talent compared to the bowlers of today who have success with reverse swing.

Lastly if you are going to accuse Wasim/Waqar of something please do so, but dont hide behind the mask of fairness, because you are not.

 

[Polo23]

I'm not going to get into an argument about it because it really doesnt matter. It was pretty blatant and obvious at the time. And thanks for finding that article, it pretty much sums up everything really.

 

[Athlai]

Cricinfo - As old as the hills

Crowe is no paragon of virtue, The fact that he himself as the captain of his team allowed one of his players to cheat makes it even harder for me to take Mr. Crowe seriously on the issue.

Interesting article. Amazing that the umpires did nothing.

 

[funnygirl]

I'm not going to get into an argument about it because it really doesnt matter. It was pretty blatant and obvious at the time. And thanks for finding that article, it pretty much sums up everything really.

Yeah shame that they were paid huge amount of money by the county people for that ''purpose ''.Surprisingly the other bowlers(in the county as well as others ) who use the same ball never looked the same class of them.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

My interest in the Pringle story is that its all well and good for Chris Pringle to say that tampering with the ball allowed him to get these amazing figures, but why didn't his fellow bowlers improve to a similar extent. Why a disproportionate improvement for Pringle?

 

[Polo23]

My interest in the Pringle story is that its all well and good for Chris Pringle to say that tampering with the ball allowed him to get these amazing figures, but why didn't his fellow bowlers improve to a similar extent. Why a disproportionate improvement for Pringle?

Watson - 3/29 off 15 overs in that first innings where the ball went everywhere.

Only 3 bowlers were used in that innings.

 

[Top_Cat]

Waqar Younis was incredible, if you've ever seen him play live, especially at a ground you'd realise the man was incredible, he made me want to take up fast bowling. IMO the most exciting quick bowler in the history of the game or at least in the modern era. Michael Atherton recently said that Wasim and Waqar ware the best he ever faced, especially because they took the pitch out of the equation and were always dangerous.

SAWTA. Absolutely made me want to bowl as quick as I could on the field and pitch it up to swing it.

Was a really chest-thumping, macho quick too. So many fast bowlers for years were tall and athletic (like the WI quicks) whereas Waqar was all muscle and brawn. He and Wasim had the nads to pitch the ball up and invite shots, even when going for runs, rather than zip it over the head of the batsman or back of a length if they were getting hit around a bit. Sometimes it didn't come off (see Jajeda's demolition job against Waqar in the 1996 WC) but it was awesome to watch. Waqar had that little bit of Lillee about him.

 

[Cricket_God]

Yes Yes, Pakistani umpires were the ones umpiring all over the world every time Wasim/Waqar were playing. Not to forget the fact that It was the great Pakistani cricketer Imran Khan who was the biggest supporter of Neutral Umpires.



Cricinfo - As old as the hills

Crowe is no paragon of virtue, The fact that he himself as the captain of his team allowed one of his players to cheat makes it even harder for me to take Mr. Crowe seriously on the issue.



I have thought about it long enough and It was not only in Pakistan they were getting the movement, they got it in England too and perhaps at other places as well. Not to forget Reverse swing is a pretty common and accepted these days. How much it swings is based on individual talents and there isn't any doubt that Wasim/Waqar were miles ahead in terms of talent compared to the bowlers of today who have success with reverse swing.

Lastly if you are going to accuse Wasim/Waqar of something please do so, but dont hide behind the mask of fairness, because you are not.

Wasim akram was a legend but waqar younis is overrated ,Todays bowlers bowl mostly
on roads and if you give even a slight seaming track batsman are not ale to cope.Wasim and imran khan are rated because they bowled well in subcontinent against top teams
while that is not the case with waqar-
Cricinfo Statsguru - Waqar Younis - Test matches - All-round analysis

 

[Sanz]

Yeah shame that they were paid huge amount of money by the county people for that ''purpose ''.Surprisingly the other bowlers(in the county as well as others ) who use the same ball never looked the same class of them.

Yeah, its just that some people(Martin Crowe in this case) like to cook up stories to defend and justify their own act and then some people actually like to believe those cooked up stories.

I would rather read 'Vikram and Betal' than books by some of these dumb cricketers.

 

[Sanz]

His stats against good teams is average.

Wasim akram was a legend but waqar younis is overrated ,Todays bowlers bowl mostly
on roads and if you give even a slight seaming track batsman are not ale to cope.Wasim and imran khan are rated because they bowled well in subcontinent against top teams
while that is not the case with waqar-
Cricinfo Statsguru - Waqar Younis - Test matches - All-round analysis

Huh you changed the statement as one can see above. Not that it makes any difference, even if one removes Zimbabwe and BD, Waqar averages around 21 @ home despite playing on some of the flattest pitches. So there goes your statistical claim down the drain.

Please do try again.

 

[Smudge]

ky TV has snubbed the Board of Control for Cricket in India by retaining former international Craig McMillan in their commentary team for tomorrow's second test at McLean Park, Napier.

McMillan's links with the Indian Cricket League (ICL) - the rival Twenty20 competition to the BCCI-backed Indian Premier League - threatened to develop into a stand-off between Sky TV, the BCCI and Sony Entertainment Television, the broadcasting partner of New Zealand Cricket that beams New Zealand's matches to India.

The BCCI has reiterated several times it will resist any contact with the ICL.

Earlier in the tour, Sachin Tendulkar and Dinesh Karthik were withdrawn from a Masters Twenty20 match in Wellington because former ICL player Hamish Marshall was included.

When India's test specialists were given practice matches in the domestic four-day competition earlier this month they were shielded from playing for or against Auckland and Northern Districts because of the presence of Daryl Tuffey and Marshall in those teams.

McMillan, who captains the Kolkata Tigers, had been pencilled as a substitute for Ravi Shastri because the commentator is heading back to India temporarily to attend a birthday party.

Shastri will return for the third and final test in Wellington from April 3-7.

Sky's acting executive producer for cricket James Cameron today said McMillan would be involved as a commentator.

Cameron has said he did not believe Sky should be "dictated to" in relation to the make-up of their commentary team.

-NZPA

'Rebel' McMillan to commentate test | Stuff.co.nz

I'm not quite sure Cameron's statement that Sky "would not be dictacted to" is as bold as it may look on first glance, considering McMillan is actually replacing Shastri who is absent. Now, if McMillan was to stay on when Shastri returns...

Sanz,

Got any proof to back up your claims that Crowe was making up stories? Dangerous legal territory to tread upon considering where this website might be based.

 

[_Ed_]

I'm not sure Shastri will be returning, remember reading somewhere that he was going to be leaving early.

 

[Smudge]

I'm not sure Shastri will be returning, remember reading somewhere that he was going to be leaving early.

Sigh...

McMillan, who captains the Kolkata Tigers, had been pencilled as a substitute for Ravi Shastri because the commentator is heading back to India temporarily to attend a birthday party.

Shastri will return for the third and final test in Wellington from April 3-7