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Vettori vs. Panesar vs. Shakib vs. Harris (Test Bowling)

Simply the Best?

  • Total voters
    35
Uppercut

Uppercut

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HeathDavisSpeed said:
Let's be honest, no slow left-armer is a prodigious turner of the ball. Vettori's wickets come mainly from variations on release, speed and flight.

This is what differentiates Vettori from other left-armer non-spinners. He's has much more cricketing nous and guile than, say, Panesar.

I wouldn't dispute that he's not a big turner of the ball, but he still has huge value as a player.
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In one sense i completely agree. I love watching him make batsmen struggle to get the bat anywhere near the ball in the middle overs of ODIs, or when a subtle change in speed leaves someone stranded halfway down the track.

But on the other hand, in tests it's hard to ignore how few good wickets he actually gets. Flatters to deceive IMO.
 
HeathDavisSpeed

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Uppercut said:
But on the other hand, in tests it's hard to ignore how few good wickets he actually gets. Flatters to deceive IMO.
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Given that he plays most of his cricket in New Zealand where, certainly over the past 10 years, the wickets have been dominated by seam bowlers, I find his record fairly impressive.

That he's taken nearly 300 wickets despite some serious back problems that forced him to remodel his action is pretty good. Since the days of uncovered wickets, how many SLAs have taken more wickets?

Scaly wants to rule out Australian wickets as "they play him badly". That's just ridiculous. Maybe they struggle to time the ball adequately due to his flight, variation of release etc. He's only ever really been a let down against the Yarpies to my mind.
 
Uppercut

Uppercut

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HeathDavisSpeed said:
Given that he plays most of his cricket in New Zealand where, certainly over the past 10 years, the wickets have been dominated by seam bowlers, I find his record fairly impressive.

That he's taken nearly 300 wickets despite some serious back problems that forced him to remodel his action is pretty good. Since the days of uncovered wickets, how many SLAs have taken more wickets?
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There's that, of course, but his away record isn't any more impressive other than his 34 wickets @ 12 in Bangladesh. Which in a way brings me back to my original point- that he'll rarely fail to get out poor players of spin but seriously struggles to get out good ones. It's probably a symptom of playing on New Zealand pitches that he's become so good at defensive bowling and waiting for a batsman mistake while struggling to force wickets against top-class players. And, of course there's the mitigating factors surrounding his back problems.

I have a lot of respect for Vettori for these reasons, and how difficult it is for a spinner to have any success in New Zealand at all. But that said, it doesn't actually make him a better bowler. Which puts me in the unusual position of always arguing against someone who's one of my favourite players.
 
Scaly piscine

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I didn't rule Australian wickets out, just said that they play him badly because they do.

So funny watching NZ fans trying to contrive grave insults out of everything. Voltman hasn't even butted in yet either.
 
Smudge

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Scaly piscine said:
I didn't rule Australian wickets out, just said that they play him badly because they do.

So funny watching NZ fans trying to contrive grave insults out of everything. Voltman hasn't even butted in yet either.
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I wouldn't bother. Your opinion is about as worthless as a condom sales rep at a bukkake.
 
G

gwo

U19 Debutant
Harris spectacularly ordinary (does his job quietly)
Shakib best of the bunch
Panesar english tripe
Vettori solid (ie 3rd out of this lot) in tests, excellent in odis.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
None are particularly memorable. I haven't seen enough of Shakib.

Harris and Vetorri are better than Panesar, but none are exceptional.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
I think Vettori is probably the most intelligent bowler out of this lot, yet that doesn't make him the most talented IMO. His flight and variations are unrivaled by all bowlers, let alone left arm spinners, but those tools don't get batsman out, they just give the batsman an opportunity to make a mistake. It will be interesting to see how he goes with himself as captain over the next few years. Should see his average lower a bit IMO.

Harris I'd say is a rung below Vettori, gets a bit more rip but lacks the variations. Though he does appear to be a very intelligent bowler.

Shakib is IMO easily the most naturally gifted out of the four, and should finish with the best career, perhaps by a long way.

Panesar is a bowler who has one good ball, and he has used it again and again and again and again and again. Don't rate him.

When a pitch offers the spinner nothing: The best is Vettori
When a pitch offers the bowler a smidge of anything: I'd put my money on Shakib.
 
Craig

Craig

World Traveller
Scaly piscine said:
I didn't rule Australian wickets out, just said that they play him badly because they do.

So funny watching NZ fans trying to contrive grave insults out of everything. Voltman hasn't even butted in yet either.
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Come back when your not as condescending. If you don't rate Vettori, fine, you are entitled to that opinion, but you come across as very troll like, almost baiting people for a reaction. Look at Uppercut, he is arguing against Vettori, but there is no way he is condescending about it, because you know, he offers a decent argument to his posts.
Now back on topic:

Vettori - obviously the best record of the lot, but I often wonder what could of been if he did not have massive stress fractures in 2000. Who is to say he wouldn't of had a better record?

Panesar - really has gone downhill in the last few years and I don't see how he can justify his spot in the team, unless it is a turing wicket. That and I got sick of how many times Ian Chappell blew his load in 06/07 over Panesar.

Shakib - not seen enough of him, but he looks like he is a gun spinner and lower order batsman. But that is going off his profile and scoresheets, anything else would be unfair to call him on.

Harris - bowled a lot better then what his record said in Australia. However as Uppercut said, it was mainly to batsmen trying to go the tonk that went arse up.
 
Noble One

Noble One

International Vice-Captain
Vettori, Shakib and Harris are interchangeable as to who is the current best test bowler. Shakib is showing more promise to become the far greater bowler, has all the wonderful left arm spinner traits of flights and varying of pace, but also can get some decent purchase from the wicket.

In a by-gone era can't but imagine none of these bowlers would have been successful against more patient batsmen capable of slowly accumulating an innings.
 
A

African Monkey

U19 Vice-Captain
Shakib for mine. Vettori will never rip through a side and is no match-winner in the test game although he would be the best ODI bowler out of the lot. Harris isn't bad.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Watching back on Vettori's haul in NZ vs Australia when only 18, and he was giving the ball a big tweak back then.
 
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