*Official* England in West Indies

[BoyBrumby]

I'll state it again as you can't be bothered to read properly.

The national media hates northerners. Fact. This then influences the gullible masses. It even influences the weak characters involved in selections. Harmison and Collingwood have been on the end of it badly over the past decade. There have been plenty of players in the past such as Trueman and Boycott who've suffered because of a bias towards southerners, whether it be because of the media, old boy network or whatever. In football Stewart Downing gets ripped to pieces whatever he does, Brian Clough as a manager was never allowed to manage England. If you're a southerner you get noticed more whether you're a player, coach or whatever. Southern players are always there or thereabouts the national side if they do the slightest thing.

Like your chum Gerrard, one assumes?

Not to mention Steve McClaren (from Hull & who managed and coached exclusively northern clubs) getting the national job ahead of Martin O'Neill and that worked out well.

 

[steds]

Not to mention Steve McClaren (from Hull & who managed and coached exclusively northern clubs) getting the national job ahead of Martin O'Neill and that worked out well.

Yeah, but everyone hates the Irish

 

[four_or_six]

If you're a southerner you get noticed more whether you're a player, coach or whatever. Southern players are always there or thereabouts the national side if they do the slightest thing.

Yeah, southerners like Plunkett and Mahmood just walked into the side, whereas hard-working northerners like Strauss and Shah spent ages trying to get picked.

 

[steds]

whereas hard-working northerners like Strauss and Shah spent ages trying to get picked.

Would have probably helped if they had English names. Just saying.

 

[ozone]

This whole argument is a load of bollocks. Theres no way the reason people want Harmison to get dropped is because he's from the north, its because he's crap.

Incidentally, four_or_six makes a fantastic point about Mahmood, Plunkett, Strauss and Shah.

 

[four_or_six]

Would have probably helped if they had English names. Just saying.

Shah basically a londoner though.

Anyway, was picking people off our current ODI squad, and only found four people I'd consider 'southerners' - Strauss, Shah, Prior and Bopara. Six northerners (plus one withdrawn), three from the midlands (plus two withdrawn) and three brought up abroad. So I don't really see this huge bias for southern players.

 

[Uppercut]

Didn't you even consider that maybe - just maybe - the reason you think the whole world has an anti-Northern-England bias is because you actually have a pro-Northern-England bias, and not because of some absolutely massive chain reaction?

There is a pro-Southern bias in the media. I wouldnt go as far to say an anti-Northern bias but possibly there is.

I wouldnt present it as a stone cold fact as Scaly has, but there is a an Everest of evidence to suggest it.

England is strange. It is a tiny country but it is a London-centric country. London is the seat of everything important. The further away from London, the less certain important people consider it to be.

To some, a three hour drive takes them into an untamed wilderness. The further from the seat of power (and supposed culture) the less respect that is given.

Northern people are often horribly charicatured.

True story. They're staging an international sporting competition exclusively in London, with a net loss of £4 billion to the rest of the country in taxes and the flow of business into London. But this is a cricket forum, so i'll just remind everyone that three of the seven tests a year held in England are played in London when only about 15% of the population live there.

 

[Flem274*]

Don't get in the way of the angry mob when there's a burnin' to take care of. He's a witch (because he weighs the same as a duck and he turned me into a newt).

I think that you need someone like Strauss in a one day side - or at least in England's one-day side given the dross that's available, and the sheer stupidity of the selectors (in the absence of a Trescothick), to chug along at 75 runs per 100 balls - provided he stays in and the bangers play round him.

Haha, great movie that.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Like your chum Gerrard, one assumes?

Not to mention Steve McClaren (from Hull & who managed and coached exclusively northern clubs) getting the national job ahead of Martin O'Neill and that worked out well.

For a start Liverpool isn't northern.

And Liverpool players get incredibly positive press because there's a load of ex-Liverpool players working at the BBC.

McClaren was savaged by the press from day one.

 

[Goughy]

One of the things Ive done a complete 180 over since living around the world and seeing different places is that I believe England has been held back by its London-centric focus and that a federal system is required.

I never thought Id believe that but I do.

 

[four_or_six]

True story. They're staging an international sporting competition exclusively in London, with a net loss of £4 billion to the rest of the country in taxes and the flow of business into London. But this is a cricket forum, so i'll just remind everyone that three of the seven tests a year held in England are played in London when only about 15% of the population live there.

But what % of the population is it the nearest test ground for?

 

[four_or_six]

One of the things Ive done a complete 180 over since living around the world and seeing different places is that I believe England has been held back by its London-centric focus and that a federal system is required.

I never thought Id believe that but I do.

It would be better if more people moved away from London and expanded other areas of the UK, because the south-east is so packed full of people because of the greater employment opportunities.

 

[Uppercut]

But what % of the population is it the nearest test ground for?

Not that much i would guess- certainly not 3/7 of them. There was a bit of research into that when the new Wembley was being built and they found that by putting the stadium in the midlands they could make it closer for the vast majority of the population and cut the average journey time down by several hours. (They still built it in London, obviously).

But to demonstrate to you just what you're saying, put a dot on a map halfway between Birmingham and London, and consider that London is further away than the nearest test ground for anything north of that map.

 

[four_or_six]

Not that much i would guess- certainly not 3/7 of them. There was a bit of research into that when the new Wembley was being built and they found that by putting the stadium in the midlands they could make it closer for the vast majority of the population and cut the average journey time down by several hours. (They still built it in London, obviously).

But to demonstrate to you just what you're saying, put a dot on a map halfway between Birmingham and London, and consider that London is further away than the nearest test ground for anything north of that map.

I'm not saying, I'm just asking. I'm genuinely interested, that's all. Anyway, according to Major Cities and Agglomerations in the United Kingdom it's closer to 33% nearer London than 3/7 (43%) by my approximation.

Anyway, I disagree with where they're chosing for tests at the moment. Cardiff over Lancs is ridiculous. But it isn't majorly wrong to have two or three in London.

 

[Uppercut]

I'm not saying, I'm just asking. I'm genuinely interested, that's all. Anyway, according to Major Cities and Agglomerations in the United Kingdom it's closer to 33% nearer London than 3/7 (43%) by my approximation.

Anyway, I disagree with where they're chosing for tests at the moment. Cardiff over Lancs is ridiculous. But it isn't majorly wrong to have two or three in London.

Yeah, it's not really much of an analysis with regards to cricket because interest varies so much throughout the country. Non-Ashes matches outside of London generally have a lot of empty seats, and you can't play exclusively the good ones there so it's pretty reasonable to have two at Lord's each year.

But it's still an example of the country being London-centric. The England football team is probably a better example- a side equally well-supported throughout that's supposed to represent the whole country, but now only ever plays matches in London? Something's not right.

 

[four_or_six]

Yeah, it's not really much of an analysis with regards to cricket because interest varies so much throughout the country. Non-Ashes matches outside of London generally have a lot of empty seats, and you can't play exclusively the good ones there so it's pretty reasonable to have two at Lord's each year.

But it's still an example of the country being London-centric. The England football team is probably a better example- a side equally well-supported throughout that's supposed to represent the whole country, but now only ever plays matches in London? Something's not right.

Yep, I agree about the football. It was better when they just went round the grounds like when they were rebuilding Wembley.

 

[superkingdave]

Yep, I agree about the football. It was better when they just went round the grounds like when they were rebuilding Wembley.

Didn't they just about play every significant game at OT after about 2003? Think from then on they played about 1 competetive match at Newcastle, and maybe about 3 friendlies elsewhere with every other game at Old Trafford. Probably not really going around the grounds.

 

[oitoitoi]

Cardiff getting an ashes test was a complete travesty and shows just how big a whore the ECB is (Cardiff bid the most). Old Trafford was obviously a better choice but they're redeveloping the ground. I'm completely outraged that it was given to Cardiff over Chester-le-Street though. I mean the ground's already built (unlike Cardiff), it has fantastic facilities, it has led the way in developing non-cricket based forms of revenue for counties, and it has one of the most successful counties in the country (current champions no less). Durham have provided no less than 4 England cricketers (5 if you include Onions, clearly they have the best academy) over the last couple of years, including an England captain, Glamorgan: 0, even Simon Jones left because of the lack of support. Also let's face it, no matter where they put an Ashes test it's always going to be sold out. It does seem mighty coincindental that they're are a lot of ex-Glamorgan 'administrators' in the ECB, can't they do anything right?

 

[luckyeddie]

Yeah, southerners like Plunkett and Mahmood just walked into the side, whereas hard-working northerners like Strauss and Shah spent ages trying to get picked.

It might have helped your case if you had chosen a good player instead of Shah

 

[pskov]

I wouldn't say the media has a pro-south bias, just a pro-London bias, which is understandable as the national media is pretty much exclusively based there. It's not as if Darlington gets any less attention than Exeter for example. And whilst there is a pro-London bias in the press, I would suggest that it is certainly not as pervasive as Scaly intimates.

Whilst I haven't done any serious statting into the matter, I would confidently predict that England selection policy in cricket doesn't show any bias as far as I can see, at least not in the last 30 years or so. Perhaps back in the old days of the MCC blazer patrol having a greater influence in the game then maybe you have a case, but England have been picking Yorkshireman and Lancastrians in a disproportionate level to their population for decades.