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*Official* English Football Season 2008-2009

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Assume you would "support" United in such a match GIMH?

Would also appreciate your input re: this :)
I actually have quite a strong opinion on that. Foreign players in the premiership make practically no negative impact on the England football team.

First of all, England are one of the top 10 teams in the world. Given the size and population of the country and the number of nations that play the sport, that's a bloody awesome effort. Whatever you do in football, you can't always guarantee having the world's best team. But somehow when England are "only" the 6th or 7th best side in the world, the media here spends years speculating on what they're doing wrong.

Secondly, there's factual considerations. Look at the England team now compared to the England sides of the 70s and 80s when the football league was dominated by British-born players- is it any worse? It's much the same really.

Thirdly, the argument doesn't actually make the slightest bit of sense. If a lot of quality foreigners come into the game, the net effect isn't to "keep Englishmen away from top-class football" as they seem to think. It simply creates another class, a higher class than that which was there before.

There's one more major issue to clear up. Foreign footballers aren't better because Arsenal always play them ahead of Englishmen. Arsenal always play foreign footballers ahead of Englishmen because they're better. Cause and effect become badly confused there for some reason.

The other thing to say is that English players very rarely play overseas. Playing in another country benefits your game immensely. If they were to play in Spain and learn a bit of quality technical ability to go with the power and pace in the English game they could be seriously good players.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I remember the days before the foreign influx and it just meant that players like Jeff Thomas and Carlton Palmer were the best English midfielders we had, players with no technical skill whatsoever, yet they were the best England had to offer. We still managed not to qualify for the World Cup in '74, '78 and '94.


I c&p'd that from an answer I gave before when this came up. Big fan of the foreign influx, and the more terribly English players behave socially, the more I wish we had a more continental feel around here.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Assume you would "support" United in such a match GIMH?

Would also appreciate your input re: this :)
Who I support when Everton play United really depends. I really don't want to ever see any team win every trophy in one seaso, least of all United, so I'm kinda rooting for Everton I think :unsure:

In years gone by when Everton have been hovering above the relegation zone, though, I've been backing United all the way in the hope they'll send the filth down. A lot of smug faces in work today mind you so I don't know if I could bear it if they got to the Cup final. Argh it really is tricky, basically I'm hoping that Chelsea, Arsenal or Hull (!!!) win the cup

edit - I'll get back to you on the other bit lately
 

Uppercut

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Wait, this is the same England that a year ago couldn't qualify for Euro?!

I understand the change in manager, but still. No way IMO.
Spain
Italy
France
Argies
Brazil
Germany
Netherlands
Russia
Australia

who else is better? And France, with Domenech mucking about the team every six minutes, is doubtful.
*shrug*

I've argued the same side as Smitteh before. The point is that people were still saying those things when they reached three consecutive major tournament quarter finals (getting knocked out twice on penalties and once to a Ronaldinho wonder-goal).
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Not going to rise to the Aussies being in that list:ph34r:

Lets just say we're certainly top 20, and theres no reason why we should be any higher, other then bone-headed patriotism.....
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Portugal for sure.
Turkey

Plenty of sides around that I suppose are arguable, Paraguay for example.
I'll give you Portugal, but Turkey & Paraguay? Nah, not for me. Would be fairly confident that we've never lost to either in our history.

If Turkey were that great they wouldn't be poaching the likes of Muzzy Izzet & Colin Kazim-Richards off us. Neither ever seriously considered for an England cap.

Anyway, re foreigners in the Prem. It's been a boon for the quality of the EPL and has gone a fair way to establishing it as the pre-eminent domestic league (oh, yes it is) but, as grecian observes, I don't think it's had any effect either way on our national team.

We won 7/8 European Cups between 78-84 with almost exclusively British manned teams, but still failed to qualify for the 78 WC & 84 European Nations and made it to Espana in 82 by the skin of our ****s; having lost to Switzerland, Romania & some Scandinavian no-marks in qualifying.

True story: Arsenal (unbelievably) won the 1989 title with a team that was 10/11ths English (David O'Leary was the odd-man out and even he was born in England) and not one of that team went to Italia 90.
 

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True story: Arsenal (unbelievably) won the 1989 title with a team that was 10/11ths English (David O'Leary was the odd-man out and even he was born in England) and not one of that team went to Italia 90.
O'Leary did :p

Maybe if he'd played for England they'd have known how to hit a penalty.
 

dontcloseyoureyes

BARNES OUT
Gotta laugh at these persistent rumours linking Vidic to Milan.

Yeah, United are gonna sell him. And I'm sure he'll want to leave the best club in the world for an ageing club who are barely clinging on to 4th spot in Italy.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Perhaps they want to bring down the average age down to 31 :ph34r: Maldini and Favalli must surely be close to be able to claim the pension?
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Spain
Italy
France
Argies
Brazil
Germany

Netherlands
Russia
Australia

who else is better? And France, with Domenech mucking about the team every six minutes, is doubtful.
Those teams are definately better. With your reasoning for France right on point.

England once all are fit & on current form along with Netherlands & Portugal are on par. Germany for all the strong work ethic they have put in this 2000s era to go so far in tournaments are really an average bunch.

No way is Russia & Australia ahead of England. Come on...


On foreigners in the prem, dont have a problem with it. Dont think it has affected the league at all, it has definately improved it. Although i think the amount of foreigners coming in could be controlled. Really dont like seeing Arsenal lacking & Liverpool so packed with foreigners, plus not many English managers.

What England reallly need is to get that academy at Burton up & running. That would take the side into the next level instantly.
 

Craig

World Traveller
If blokes like Matthew Upson and Stuart Taylor were of Arsenal standard, wouldn't they still be there?
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
True story: Arsenal (unbelievably) won the 1989 title with a team that was 10/11ths English (David O'Leary was the odd-man out and even he was born in England) and not one of that team went to Italia 90.
That's unbelievable - how did they justify that??
 

Uppercut

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If blokes like Matthew Upson and Stuart Taylor were of Arsenal standard, wouldn't they still be there?
Steve Sidwell, Jermaine Pennant, David Bentley. There's plenty, and Arsenal get far too much **** for the amount of foreign players in their team. They give English youth loads of chances but they're just not good enough. Major attitude problems from the last two there too.
 

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