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Shootout in Lahore

0RI0N

State 12th Man
Welcome to the dark ages. Unfortunately, a large part of humanity is still stuck in the 1200s.
/
Agreed.But I'd say 500's(darkest of the dark ages),not 1200.
Though it's how easily you are influenced.If you cannot think for yourself and make your own decisions,it's much easier to listen to and follow a demented person(Osama,right wing preachers,radical zionists etc.) spreading hate.
There,I said it.
 
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wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman, Ijaz Butt is going to file a complaint to the ICC about Chris Broad's comments regarding the Pakistani security. Disgraceful.
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman, Ijaz Butt is going to file a complaint to the ICC about Chris Broad's comments regarding the Pakistani security. Disgraceful.
Broads statements was that the commando dived into the bus for his own safety and landed on Broad he thinks that the commandos were not thinking of the safety of the officials but trying to get themselves out alive.

According to the Police officer who was in the bus of umpires, 'the driver of the bus Zafar Khan was shot in the neck and died instantly and then the 4th umpire Ahsan Raza was shot in the chest and stomach .Then an Elite Force Commando rushed towards the bus, bullets had already broken all the glasses, jumped from the window to lay over Chris Broad, within few seconds bullets came and hit the Commando's back. But he saved Chris Broad! Since the driver was dead, I pushed him out of the bus because we had to run from there, another Commando who was already shot on his leg came to the driver's seat and drove the bus in severe pain and bleeding, he didn't even change the gear!'

Now there are discepencies in the two stories however that does not mean it gives Mr Butt the right to sue Broad. I would take Chris Broad word over any random security guy account, the bottom line is the security arrangements were pathetic, lethargic and over confident. They were definately not given any presidential style security or even VIP security
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
Making yourself a human shield is incredibly noble an' all, but I can't help but think that shooting back at the ****s might have been a more constructive activity on the part of the 'commandos'.
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
Making yourself a human shield is incredibly noble an' all, but I can't help but think that shooting back at the ****s might have been a more constructive activity on the part of the 'commandos'.
What commandoes? the were bloody regular policemen and from the videos I don't even see any retaliatory firing were they even carrying any weapons with them?
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Making yourself a human shield is incredibly noble an' all, but I can't help but think that shooting back at the ****s might have been a more constructive activity on the part of the 'commandos'.
Easier said than done. They were separated and outnumbered after the initial killings of the Police in the car. One guy shooting back would have drawn fire from all the others, essentially suicide. Best practice is to take cover and assess. It really is a disgrace that there weren't more of them in the first place, though. Should be 3-1 or better, ideally.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
The worst idea ever is to shoot back by yourself, thereby drawing ALL the fire to you, and to all the people in the bus.

I've no idea what the commando/police officer did, but I'd be pissed if that guy was next to me and started firing back. That's putting my life in even bigger danger.

Ideally, you'd take your weapons and go far away from the area, and then shoot from there (flank them). Obviously, that's a bit hard when you're pinned down. And of course, I'm not excusing the security at all, since if there weren't any special forces trailing/preceeding them at a distance where they could easily outflank/counterattack the terrorists, it likely wasn't 'Presidential Level security'.
 

As if

Cricket Spectator
Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman, Ijaz Butt is going to file a complaint to the ICC about Chris Broad's comments regarding the Pakistani security. Disgraceful.
Seconded.

The man's an idiot trying desperately to save his own skin. I've seen the coverage and it's plain to see that the umpires were hung out to dry. The team bus left and so did the security. Both Aussie umpires, Taufel and Davis who were on the same mini-bus as Broad have been interviewed and would like to know why they were abandoned. 'Let down' was one of the comments I heard. Dominic Cork has been on TV and said that one security officer actually laid on the floor acting dead and later got up and pegged it to safety when the coast was clear, celebrating as he went! 'Presidential security', you're having a laugh.

Cork also said that once everyone had got to the stadium Ijaz Butt was quite content to sit on his Butt and leave all the hard work and organising to Sohail. The bloke hasn't got a leg to stand on and should resign immediately.
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
The worst idea ever is to shoot back by yourself, thereby drawing ALL the fire to you, and to all the people in the bus.

I've no idea what the commando/police officer did, but I'd be pissed if that guy was next to me and started firing back. That's putting my life in even bigger danger.

Ideally, you'd take your weapons and go far away from the area, and then shoot from there (flank them). Obviously, that's a bit hard when you're pinned down. And of course, I'm not excusing the security at all, since if there weren't any special forces trailing/preceeding them at a distance where they could easily outflank/counterattack the terrorists, it likely wasn't 'Presidential Level security'.
You're in a bus, surrounded, with them all shooting at you already. Meanwhile another guy is calmly setting up a RPG to shoot at the bus making whatever cover it provides irrelevant, with no-one making him think about needing cover or making him feel pressured. How is the situation really going to get much worse if you shoot back?

I'm saying this knowing that it's much easier for me to say that than for the poor guy stuck in that situation to do anything other than hide and pray it will be over soon, but if these guys are meant to be a security force, they've hopefully been trained to react.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
What commandoes? the were bloody regular policemen and from the videos I don't even see any retaliatory firing were they even carrying any weapons with them?
Cricinfo - Butt accuses Broad of lies on security

Butt, though, disputed Broad's account. "It is a big lie that there were no policemen. A commando jumped over Broad and saved his life. The commando was hurt so if there was no policeman, how come Broad was saved?
Taufel seems to broadly agree with Broad. I can see that the PCB might not like Broad because of him being fairly outspoken usually, but iirc Taufel was one person who always stuck up for going to Pakistan when there was the discussion about the Champoins Trophy.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/393459.html
 
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silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
You're in a bus, surrounded, with them all shooting at you already. Meanwhile another guy is calmly setting up a RPG to shoot at the bus making whatever cover it provides irrelevant, with no-one making him think about needing cover or making him feel pressured. How is the situation really going to get much worse if you shoot back?
Becuase there is more than one target. There were 4-5 vans/buses, containing police officers, players, officials, etc. A sole guy firing from one is a bad idea, because now all the fire is drawn to that one bus. If your bus had only other policemen, it's fine to fire from it. It definitely can get worse. You're putting civilians in unecessary jeopardy if you do anything like that.

I'm saying this knowing that it's much easier for me to say that than for the poor guy stuck in that situation to do anything other than hide and pray it will be over soon, but if these guys are meant to be a security force, they've hopefully been trained to react.
Well, hopefully, they are trained to react the right way - not impulsively. In presidential level security, the guy immeadly surrounding the VIP in question generally acts as a body shield. You have commandos and other special ops that are trailing and preceeding the car in question at distances which allow them to flank the attack should one occur. That did not happen, so I doubt they got presidential security. The blame lies with other security, if it did exist, because they did not draw the fire away, and/or did not get in positions to neutralize the threats fast enough. The guy on top of Broad probably did the smartest thing in terms of saving Broad's life. I say probably, because I don't know the facts.

In the end though, seven police members died and no players did - they must have done something right.
 
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jeevan

International 12th Man
Details of SL team protection

Lets not speculate.

According to Lahore police, there were 39 police personnel including 24 of "Elite Force" accompanying the SL team in six elite force vehicles.
So, apparently these were not your garden variety police men and it does seem a good number of them were provided.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
I think it's possible, listening to accounts, that it may be that the majority of the security protected the players during the attack, and therefore it looked to the ICC staff like the security was leaving them alone.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
Just like the Hudson river miracle, the big man upstairs is talking to his people no doubt...
No he isn't, we've just had a few skilled and brave men in the two instances, and some luck that a hand grenade didn't go off.. Bringing faith into real world situations like these are one of the reasons they happen in the first place, absolutely ridiculous..
 

Bracken

U19 Debutant
Pakistan Cricket Board Chairman, Ijaz Butt is going to file a complaint to the ICC about Chris Broad's comments regarding the Pakistani security. Disgraceful.
At least the PCB hasn't lost their sense of irony in all this. Broad has just had assault rifles and f-ing RPGs fired at him, and Ijaz Butt thinks that he'll give a flying f--k about an ICC complaint?

Somehow, I'm guessing that Broad has more pressing concerns right at the moment. Laundering the stains out of his strides, for starters.

I have little doubt that Broad is being somewhat unfair to the efforts of the security forces, but considering the way he spent his day, I think the PCB would probably be wise to let this one slide.
 

bagapath

International Captain
i think broad is being a bit unfair. 6 security guys have died and none of the foreign visitors are fatally injured. i know there is a huge security screwup. but something must have gone right with the security measures too. otherwise the players wont be alive now. cant attribute everything to thye driver's resourcefulness and blind luck (of the grenades not exploding)
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
i think broad is being a bit unfair. 6 security guys have died and none of the foreign visitors are fatally injured. i know there is a huge security screwup. but something must have gone right with the security measures too. otherwise the players wont be alive now. cant attribute everything to thye driver's resourcefulness and blind luck (of the grenades not exploding)
Butt can blabber as much as he can, it was Broad and the umpires who came under fire. and Broads account is verified by the other umpires that security was non existant. Butt is just trying to cover his butt by saying the security was adequate and trying to hide the fact that security was not capable of protecting themselves and the officials.
 

SirBloody Idiot

Cricketer Of The Year
i think broad is being a bit unfair. 6 security guys have died and none of the foreign visitors are fatally injured. i know there is a huge security screwup. but something must have gone right with the security measures too. otherwise the players wont be alive now. cant attribute everything to thye driver's resourcefulness and blind luck (of the grenades not exploding)
And how many of those were protecting the umpires bus?
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
PCB is being led by jokers, I will be surprised if anyone ever took their word on anything. Whatever security they ordered for the Teams just got owned by terrorists and now they are talking about filling a complain.

I think ICC should suspend Pakistan Cricket Board for not living up to its word on security and for pure incompetency.
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
i think broad is being a bit unfair. 6 security guys have died and none of the foreign visitors are fatally injured. i know there is a huge security screwup. but something must have gone right with the security measures too. otherwise the players wont be alive now. cant attribute everything to thye driver's resourcefulness and blind luck (of the grenades not exploding)
Excellent post.. Think everyone needs to chill out and wait for some more findings before pointing fingers.. obviously the emotion of the situation makes that easier said than done
 

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