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Top 5 modern day greats

Top 5 modern day greats


  • Total voters
    90

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
im suprised im only one of 4 who voted for Walsh, surely hes one of the best bowlers since the years of roberts and holding etc.
Walsh was shadowed by Ambrose. He was a good bowler but got better with age. In the latter years, he took a lot of wickets but not so in the chunk of his career. He doesn't come close to an all time great where I am concerned.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
yes, i do argue that. you cant call him the greatest of his era (he is one of the greats, no doubt) and make it an open shut case versus all-time greats like sachin and lara when he is pathetic in a country. 54 think sachin is in the top 5 of the era. 11 think the same of ponting. who is wearing rose tinted glasses? fifty fricking four and eleven. yeah. yeah. they are just opinions, but it is the majority.
You don't seem to get it; Lara and Sachin themselves have comparable poor records against a certain opposition. In fact, for Lara and Sachin it is worse. They not only have a poor record like that, but against the country regardless. For Lara it is India and for Sachin S.Africa. Ponting doesn't even have that, it's simply only in India - overall against India he averages almost 50 - compare that to Lara and Sachin in the 30s.

You wouldn't say Sobers isn't the best of his era because he averaged 15 against NZ in NZ and 23-25 against them overall, would you? So this argument of yours doesn't begin to make sense.

Ponting is superior in almost every other way. You wanna show an instance where Ponting has a poor record, that's fine. But be fair and show that the other two you named also have poor records and even more points for question. For instance, Lara's away record is not as good as the others; Sachin's 3rd/4th inning record is frankly below par.

You're wearing the rose-tinted glasses, you deny the faults in the batsman you cherish and resort to the poll results as a defense of your preferred player's record. It says enough about the argument - or lack-there-of - you put forth. Essentially, you're saying because Sachin's average of 28 AT HOME against S.Africa is better than Ponting's 20 AWAY in India, Tendulkar is better on that detail alone. Ignoring that Ponting is superior in every other facet.
 
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funnygirl

State Regular
Certain people interested in pulling down Sachin sighting his statistics against a particular opposition .The same person have no problem in putting a legend as the greatest of all having a very poor statistics against the best players of spin.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Certain people interested in pulling down Sachin sighting his statistics against a particular opposition .The same person have no problem in putting a legend as the greatest of all having a very poor statistics against the best players of spin.
I'm assuming you're talking to me because I am the one pulling Sachin's stats down...but the rest of your post I don't understand. If it was directed at me, please rephrase it.
 

bagapath

International Captain
You don't seem to get it; Lara and Sachin themselves have comparable poor records against a certain opposition. In fact, for Lara and Sachin it is worse. They not only have a poor record like that, but against the country regardless. For Lara it is India and for Sachin S.Africa. Ponting doesn't even have that, it's simply only in India - overall against India he averages almost 50 - compare that to Lara and Sachin in the 30s.

You wouldn't say Sobers isn't the best of his era because he averaged 15 against NZ in NZ and 23-25 against them overall, would you? So this argument of yours doesn't begin to make sense.

Ponting is superior in almost every other way. You wanna show an instance where Ponting has a poor record, that's fine. But be fair and show that the other two you named also have poor records and even more points for question. For instance, Lara's away record is not as good as the others; Sachin's 3rd/4th inning record is frankly below par.

You're wearing the rose-tinted glasses, you deny the faults in the batsman you cherish and resort to the poll results as a defense of your preferred player's record. It says enough about the argument - or lack-there-of - you put forth. Essentially, you're saying because Sachin's average of 28 AT HOME against S.Africa is better than Ponting's 20 AWAY in India, Tendulkar is better on that detail alone. Ignoring that Ponting is superior in every other facet.
lets for a minute go withy your line of argument. how would you rate warne as the greatest spinner, then? it should be murali!!!
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
lets for a minute go withy your line of argument. how would you rate warne as the greatest spinner, then? it should be murali!!!
And why is that? And how does my line of reasoning here conflict with that?
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
McGrath>>>Warne and certainly an all time great. McGrath was THE fast bowler who bowled spot on and unplayable deliveries and kept bowling them all through his career. His wickets, average speak for themselves. Some people credit Warne with creating the spin revolution. While that is debatable, even if Warne did some thing magical for spin bowling, he wasn't as big an asset as McGrath. Compare McGrath's average of 21 against 25 of Warne. McGrath is a greater player than Warne.

Also, I highly disagree with some people who question McGrath as an all time great. SJS has blasted McGrath once I recall on these forums and people do not think that he was terrifying enough as a bowler but I tell you what, if you keep getting me those wickets at an average of 21, at a Strike Rate of 50 and an economy of 2.5, I will have you in my all time great list right up there with the best.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
lets for a minute go withy your line of argument. how would you rate warne as the greatest spinner, then? it should be murali!!!
And why is that? And how does my line of reasoning here conflict with that?
At the risk of being a killjoy, Ikki has repeatedly and in detail explained his rationale on this before. Whether or not you agree with him it shouldn't be difficult to find, and it would stop this thread going the same way as so many others.
 

bagapath

International Captain
And why is that? And how does my line of reasoning here conflict with that?
murali has a better statistical record against warne in most countries. why dont you choose him as the best spinner of the era? is it because he is not australian?

EDIT: okay SS, Matt! I stop here.
 
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funnygirl

State Regular
I'm assuming you're talking to me because I am the one pulling Sachin's stats down...but the rest of your post I don't understand. If it was directed at me, please rephrase it.
yes indeed it was meant to you.What about Warne's stats against India .And u put him as the greatest of all.
 

andmark

International Captain
Warne is obviously a legend, as are Murali, Lara, Chanderpaul and Ponting

Refrained from say Aktar because of his disgusting actions.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
murali has a better statistical record against warne in most countries. why dont you choose him as the best spinner of the era? is it because he is not australian?
Erp, but he doesn't really. Murali's figures are inflated with B/Z. Warne has better away figures than Murali. Murali has better home figures than Warne - and that's easily explainable in that Warne has bowled on unfriendly spin pitches at home for half his tests/career where Murali has bowled on pitches doctored for his bowling for half his tests/career.

By simply removing B/Z by itself, Murali's record falls on par with Warne's, yet Warne has not had the help of the pitches aforementioned. So it's quite clear that my rationale is consistent and transparent.

I have no problem with people saying Tendulkar is better than Ponting. But for the reason you bring, that ONLY because of that average of 20 that he is not on the same level...it irks me. I believe we're all much smarter than that.
 
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The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
murali has a better statistical record against warne in most countries. why dont you choose him as the best spinner of the era? is it because he is not australian?

EDIT: okay SS, Matt! I stop here.
I'm as big a fan of Matt's as most, but I stop short of actually trying to BE him! :p
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
My top 5 -

Ambrose - was far more tighter than McGrath (as the economy rate of 2.3 v 2.5 indicates)
Gilchrist
Wasim Akram - arguably the greatest left arm fast bowler ever.
Murali
Tendulkar/Lara - I can only decide once the career of Tendulkar is finally over.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
yes indeed it was meant to you.What about Warne's stats against India .And u put him as the greatest of all.
Yes? But what is your point?

I am not the one saying Sachin can't be a great because of his record against S.Africa. I simply brought it up because bagapath said simply because of Ponting's poor record in India he is not as great. Well, by that same standard, Sachin's record for S.Africa should apply, shouldn't it? Likewise Sobers' record in NZ, or Hammond's in WIndies - to mention other greats - should discount them from greatness. Yet they never do, so why for Ponting?
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The first two names on my list were Kallis and Pollock. Not many people considered Pollock but I really think he was the Kallis of bowling allrounders - right up there with the best of his era in his strongest suit, at times the best in the world, and much more than handy in his secondary skill. For mine, their secondary skills more than make up for any differences between them and their aptitude in their primary skill and those are of specialists. To me, allrounders will always be the most valuable cricketers providing they are right up there in their primary skill as well, and we've had two hugely under-appreciated gems in recent times.

My next two picks were players who are, IMO, the best ever in their arts. Gilchrist as a batsman/keeper arguably changed the way selection worked by putting more emphasis on the batting ability on wicket keepers. He was a world class batsman in his own right and a more than acceptable wicket keeper right throughout his career. Murali is, in my perhaps controversial opinion, the greatest spinner of all time, so he joins my list as well.

My fifth pick was of course Warne. Arguably better than Murali as a bowler, I rate him a fraction below in his speciality. However, when you factor in his catching, leadership, tactical naus and occasional batting, I actually rate him a better overall cricketer than Murali and hence his inclusion is essentially compulsory.

Unlike others who did so, I didn't really make a conscious decision to leave Ponting, Tendulkar or Lara out; it just sort of worked out that way. The fact that they're so hard to split probably contributed to it as having to choose between the three would have proven difficult for me, but in the end I just don't quite rate them as highly as those I named. McGrath, too, was exceptionally unlucky. Those four in no particular order would round out my "top 9" as such. I think there's a little bit of a gap after that.


Kallis
Pollock
Gilchrist
Warne
Murali
 
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funnygirl

State Regular
Yes? But what is your point?

I am not the one saying Sachin can't be a great because of his record against S.Africa. I simply brought it up because bagapath said simply because of Ponting's poor record in India he is not as great. Well, by that same standard, Sachin's record for S.Africa should apply, shouldn't it? Likewise Sobers' record in NZ, or Hammond's in WIndies - to mention other greats - should discount them from greatness. Yet they never do, so why for Ponting?
Okay .So i jumped in the middle and created confusion .Apologies.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I agree with this. Gilchrist > Lara, Tendulkar and probably Ponting too. He walks into an all-time side in the same way a Bradman does.
Yeah happy with that. Most definitely underappreciated IMO.

Would still take McGrath over him though.
 

0RI0N

State 12th Man
McGrath>>>Warne and certainly an all time great. McGrath was THE fast bowler who bowled spot on and unplayable deliveries and kept bowling them all through his career. His wickets, average speak for themselves. Some people credit Warne with creating the spin revolution. While that is debatable, even if Warne did some thing magical for spin bowling, he wasn't as big an asset as McGrath. Compare McGrath's average of 21 against 25 of Warne. McGrath is a greater player than Warne.

Also, I highly disagree with some people who question McGrath as an all time great. SJS has blasted McGrath once I recall on these forums and people do not think that he was terrifying enough as a bowler but I tell you what, if you keep getting me those wickets at an average of 21, at a Strike Rate of 50 and an economy of 2.5, I will have you in my all time great list right up there with the best.
/
CEL Ambrose,the best bowler of the last 20yrs imho.
Shoutouts to messrs. Mcgrath,Younis,Donald,Akram,Pollock&Walsh.
 

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