*Official* England in West Indies

[Jarquis]

93-2 now.
Cook out for 16,
Shah out for 4 apparently
BBC SPORT | Cricket Scorecard

 

[Richard]

In case anyone is interested

In a two-dayer in which virtually nothing counts for anything?

Not likely.

 

[ozone]

I also wish someone would pick Chris Jordan in some West Indian rep team to force him to make the choice, as right now he's 100% legitimately qualified for both England and West Indies.

Surely its a no contest. Making himself West Indian would effectively mean he would have to be an overseas player in county cricket wouldn't it? Without considering which country he would prefer to represent, surely this in itself is enough to encourage him to call himself English, as I can't see many county sides signing him as an overseas player.

 

[ozone]

In a two-dayer in which virtually nothing counts for anything?

Not likely.

Over-cynical TBH. It might, in effect, mean nothing, but it is likely to influence selection, and to that extent, is of interest.

 

[Richard]

Surely its a no contest. Making himself West Indian would effectively mean he would have to be an overseas player in county cricket wouldn't it? Without considering which country he would prefer to represent, surely this in itself is enough to encourage him to call himself English, as I can't see many county sides signing him as an overseas player.

The thing is, if someone from West Indies picks him for West Indies B or whatever - anything that is directly under the jurisdiction of West Indies - he then has to either accept that or throw his lot in with England - who he's very unlikely to ever be good enough to play for internationally.

It's what Raymond Illingworth did in 1995/96 - Andrew Symonds was playing the system and using his England-qualified-ness to skirt the overseas-player rules. Illingworth, knowing Symonds had no intention of playing for anyone other than Australia and tiring of this, gave him an invite to an England A tour. In refusing, he had to throw in his lot with Australia and could only play county cricket as an overseas-player.

The essence is that it irritates me that Chris Jordan is playing county cricket as an England player when most signs suggest he actually wants to play for West Indies.

 

[Richard]

Over-cynical TBH. It might, in effect, mean nothing, but it is likely to influence selection, and to that extent, is of interest.

It shouldn't. The only thing that is in doubt is Flintoff's replacement, and that should be nothing to do with this match and everything to do with what the pitch at Kensington looks like. If it's an obvious result pitch it should be Bell; if it looks like a draw is a possibility then it should be Sidebottom.

 

[pskov]

The thing is, if someone from West Indies picks him for West Indies B or whatever - anything that is directly under the jurisdiction of West Indies - he then has to either accept that or throw his lot in with England - who he's very unlikely to ever be good enough to play for internationally.

Not sure about that. Knowing our selectors, anyone who is able to bowl at 85mph and can hold a bat the right way round usually gets capped soon enough.

 

[Jigga988]

Seeing as though you have to play island cricket to play for the Windies and as you say Richard, an acceptance in to island cricke or indeed a Windies XI of some sort would prohibit him from playing county cricket.

I have no objections with whats going on, he needs to improve and the most likely way of doing that is in county cricket, think he needs to stay there for a nother couple years, then finally leave when he's good enough, coos right now he's not at test level... despite being a better bowler than Powell...

 

[roseboy64]

Seeing as though you have to play island cricket to play for the Windies and as you say Richard, an acceptance in to island cricke or indeed a Windies XI of some sort would prohibit him from playing county cricket.

I have no objections with whats going on, he needs to improve and the most likely way of doing that is in county cricket, think he needs to stay there for a nother couple years, then finally leave when he's good enough, coos right now he's not at test level... despite being a better bowler than Powell...

Based on what?

 

[Jigga988]

Based on what?

From the few matches I've seen of him, he can definitely hold a bat better than Powell, and though I don't really know how he fields I'm sure he can field better than Powell (my grandma could field better than Powell and she's been dead past 5 years) and has similar pace to Powell - i.e. mid to high 80's, and though his line and length isn't immaculate it's still probobly as good if not better than Powell's usually.

The only thing I can think of that Powell might be better than Jordan, is in the odd spell where Powell will look dangerous, where as Jordan, isn't really that potent.

 

[Richard]

Not sure about that. Knowing our selectors, anyone who is able to bowl at 85mph and can hold a bat the right way round usually gets capped soon enough.

Does he really bowl 85mph? Didn't even know he'd bowled on Sky.

 

[Richard]

From the few matches I've seen of him, he can definitely hold a bat better than Powell, and though I don't really know how he fields I'm sure he can field better than Powell (my grandma could field better than Powell and she's been dead past 5 years) and has similar pace to Powell - i.e. mid to high 80's, and though his line and length isn't immaculate it's still probobly as good if not better than Powell's usually.

The only thing I can think of that Powell might be better than Jordan, is in the odd spell where Powell will look dangerous, where as Jordan, isn't really that potent.

Given that Powell did OK-ish in his most recent county stint and Jordan has so far done little to nothing in county cricket, I'd feel fairly assured in saying that Jordan is currently quite a bit lesser than Powell purely on bowling - and given that Powell is currently playing Test cricket as a specialist bowler, that's the part that counts.

Powell may be awful by Test standards, but Jordan would right now almost certainly be as awful if not even more (though that would be very difficult for any bowler who can send the ball down at 80+mph and hit the cut strip - even Mohammad Sami struggled to average over 50).

 

[roseboy64]

Powell averages in the 20s in FC-only cricket so based on that alone I can comfortably state that he's better than Jordan.

 

[Jigga988]

Powell averages in the 20s in FC-only cricket so based on that alone I can comfortably state that he's better than Jordan.

Was probobly being a bit ott, the guy has just been annoying the hell out of me when he has been bowling lately so I've got a bit of a warped view, but as Richard said, you'd be hard pressed to find a bowler who could average just under 50 in test cricket...

 

[roseboy64]

Was probobly being a bit ott, the guy has just been annoying the hell out of me when he has been bowling lately so I've got a bit of a warped view, but as Richard said, you'd be hard pressed to find a bowler who could average just under 50 in test cricket...

There are no alternatives to Powell who are doing well enough TBH. Baker averages over 40 in FC. He's done well this season but he needs to conitnue for another. Roach and Bess have no ball problems. Lawson was ill last year and won't be in contention until the English season starts if he still has a contract. McLean is still too inexperienced.

 

[Jigga988]

There are no alternatives to Powell who are doing well enough TBH. Baker averages over 40 in FC. He's done well this season but he needs to conitnue for another. Roach and Bess have no ball problems. Lawson was ill last year and won't be in contention until the English season starts if he still has a contract. McLean is still too inexperienced.

He's been around for a long while though hasn't he? Never wanna see Baker near the test team tbh, think Roach is the best hope out of all those you mentioned

 

[Jarquis]

Bopara made 124*
Ambrose - 74
Rashid - 1
Prior - 0
Bell made 44.

351/8d
They are apparently 18/3 with Amjad Khan taking 2 wickets in an over.

 

[wpdavid]

According to this, they finished on 41-3. Sidebottom, Amjad & Rashid each took a wicket.


BBC SPORT | Cricket Scorecard


EDIT
Although a closer look at the bowling figures and fall of wickets suggest that Amjad did take two wickets with the total on 18. Maybe Rashid took the 4th wicket in the final over but the batting card needs updating.
Yup - it now says 49 for 4. Dunno what they'll do after lunch tomorrow.

 

[Jigga988]

Bopara made 124*
Ambrose - 74
Rashid - 1
Prior - 0
Bell made 44.

351/8d
They are apparently 18/3 with Amjad Khan taking 2 wickets in an over.

Bopara and Khan staking a claim for the free spot that seemed like it was Bell's though, I'm not sure how much weight English selectors put on a 2 day match...

 

[Jarquis]

IMO it could only be bell's if it was an out and out result pitch.
Else we need the 5th bowler.
If it's a turner Rashid, If it isn't Sidebottom.
If they want to drop Harmison as well then Sidebottom and Khan.
If Swann is injured Rashid has to play ahead of Monty.