Are medium-pacers useful in modern test cricket?

[Richard]

I mean real medium-pacers, not your Glenn McGrath/Jacques Kallis types, the Brendan Nash/Paul Collingwood/Andrew McDonald trundlers who the keepers will always stand up to.

The wicketkeeper standing up to the stumps has no small amount to do with height as well as speed. For instance, no-one would ever stand up to the stumps to Andrew Caddick in ODIs, whereas Mark Ealham they almost always would. Yet the pace difference was perhaps 2-3mph at best.

Height plays a considerable part in whether the wicketkeeper stands up to the stumps and judging medium-pacer on where the wicketkeeper stands is a bit iffy IMO.

 

[Richard]

btw, who on earth bowls 110-119?

In all honesty I can't think of anyone who actually bowls. Even the direst part-time trundler can top 120kph.

Only Chris Harris comes to mind as always being under 120, but he also rarely hit 110kph apart from maybe earlier in his career.

As I say - Bryan Strang, Pommie Mbangwa.

Out-and-out medium-pace just doesn't really have a place in Test cricket. I doubt, TBH, that it ever did - people just see wicketkeepers standing up to the likes of Alec Bedser on black-and-white film and presume they weren't really that quick. Yet Bedser was probably about 80mph - that is, he could easily bowl that speed if he tried.

You need to be medium-fast to really bowl in Test\ODI cricket, with a very rare exception, like Brendan Nash.

 

[thierry henry]

Never saw Astle bowl anywhere near 125kph TBH, never looked at what speeds Hussey bowls and Ponting, well, on the very rare occasion he's bowled seam he's usually been 115-116kph.

The out-and-out medium-pacer is EXTREMELY rare. Medium-fast is more common than most people give it credit for.

Every time I've seen Ponting and Hussey bowl they have been 120s.

Astle was always low 120s, I watched his entire career. He didn't strive for pace at all so sometimes he was high 110s, at worst.

 

[thierry henry]

As I say - Bryan Strang, Pommie Mbangwa.

Out-and-out medium-pace just doesn't really have a place in Test cricket. I doubt, TBH, that it ever did - people just see wicketkeepers standing up to the likes of Alec Bedser and presume they weren't really that quick. Yet Bedser was probably about 80mph - that is, he could easily bowl that speed if he tried.

You need to be medium-fast to really bowl in Test\ODI cricket, with a very rare exception, like Brendan Nash.

Even Nash can bowl over 120kph. Reckon he is similar to Astle or slightly slower (lower proportion of balls over 120 but can still get there.)

 

[thierry henry]

btw, I seem to remember Mbangwa once playing a test at the Basin Reserve where he bowled in to the wind and actually dropped below 100kph at one point (not a slower ball). Extraordinary that guys like Mbangwa and Strang played international cricket at a time when Zimbabwe were vaguely competitive. They are a real anomaly...even Bangladesh has hardly had specialist bowlers that slow.

 

[Richard]

Even Nash can bowl over 120kph. Reckon he is similar to Astle or slightly slower (lower proportion of balls over 120 but can still get there.)

Perhaps the kph description is not entirely brilliant. If you look at it in mph instead (someone can translate):
70-74mph - medium
75-79mph - medium-fast
80-85mph - fast-medium
86mph+ - fast
(95mph+ - very, very fast!)
Anything below 70mph is clearly into the "slow-medium" territory - Chris Harris-esque.

Certainly never seen Ponting, Nash or Astle beat 75mph. Vaas rarely does these days. Shahid Afridi always has occasionally though.

 

[thierry henry]

Perhaps the kph description is not entirely brilliant. If you look at it in mph instead (someone can translate):
70-74mph - medium
75-79mph - medium-fast
80-85mph - fast-medium
86mph+ - fast
(95mph+ - very, very fast!)
Anything below 70mph is clearly into the "slow-medium" territory - Chris Harris-esque.

Certainly never seen Ponting, Nash or Astle beat 75mph. Vaas rarely does these days. Shahid Afridi always has occasionally though.

No, your translation is dead right pretty much, except 120kph is about 74mph. Astle was consistently 73-76mph his whole career.

 

[Migara]

Bryan Strang was not that slow IMO. Possibly 125kph with his effort balls., but usually 120k ish. The similar bowler I could think in current times is Bangladesh's Syed Rasel. Both of them moved the ball off the track like magic. I can remember Strang beating Steve Waugh ball after ball with the leg-cut he got off the wicket. Syed Rasel on other hands moves it in to the RHB. These two are the most prodigeous movers of the ball off the track I have ever seen, because they do it even on pitches considered as roads.

 

[Richard]

Yeah I mean, the only time I've ever seen Bryan Strang timed was the 2000 series' in England (Tests and ODIs) and he was mostly 69-70mph, with the odd ball up at 72-73. It's perfectly possible he was a bit quicker than this at other times.

 

[zaremba]

Never understood why fast-medium is used to describe bowling that's faster than medium-fast. I've always thought it should be the other way round.

I need to get out more.

 

[Richard]

You don't not have a point.

I don't need to use double-negatives less.

It just depends on which way around you look at it, I guess. Is it a fast variation of medium (and ditto a medium version of fast), or is it fast leaning a little way toward medium (and medium leaning a little way toward fast)?

 

[G.I.Joe]

Never understood why fast-medium is used to describe bowling that's faster than medium-fast. I've always thought it should be the other way round.

I need to get out more.

I hadn't encountered that system you mention until Richard's post in this thread. I thought Fast > Medium-Fast > Fast-Medium > Medium > Slow was the system everyone used. Adjective-Noun, not Noun-Adjective.

 

[zaremba]

I hadn't encountered that system you mention until Richard's post in this thread. I thought Fast > Medium-Fast > Fast-Medium > Medium > Slow was the system everyone used. Adjective-Noun, not Noun-Adjective.

I'm glad I'm not alone.

However I think that Richard's post does reflect the commonly-used terminology.

ps part of the problem may be that in fact it's adjective-adjective...

 

[Durham_CCC]

Marcus Trethscothick was quite usefull bowling medium pace.

 

[Prince EWS]

I hadn't encountered that system you mention until Richard's post in this thread. I thought Fast > Medium-Fast > Fast-Medium > Medium > Slow was the system everyone used. Adjective-Noun, not Noun-Adjective.

Yeah, I've mentioned this before. Depsite that being logical, though, it's not how it works with cricket terminology.

 

[Richard]

Marcus Trethscothick was quite usefull bowling medium pace.

I saw Trescothick hit the late-70s as well. He was certainly much quicker than you'd possibly imagine as he lumbered in and rolled his arm over.

 

[haroon510]

To be honest i never liked to see wicket keepers standing up close to stumps for a medium pacers.. i wonder why Vaas wants the wicket keepr that close to stumps considering that he has pace unlike other once that i have seen..

i would have to agree with Imran khan on this once.. he once told that you can't win matches with Medium pacers...unless they can swing and has the natural ability to swing the ball both ways just like Mohammad asif...that is one of the reason i never found guys like Sohail Tanveer, Anjum and even yasir arafat match winner in test matches...

 

[Richard]

If the wicketkeeper can stand up to the stumps it's a huge advantage, stopping batsmen from using as carelessly their feet as they'd like.

 

[pskov]

The only guy that came to mind who was medium pace or not much more and had a successful test career post-WW2 was Alec Bedser. But then looking at Cricinfo even he was classified as medium-fast, so who knows.

 

[Richard]

The only reason Alec Bedser so often comes to mind as a medium-pacer is because he's often seen bowling on black-and-white film with Godfrey Evans stood up to the stumps. IE, this film is shown regularly, unlike other bowlers of his time, because Bedser was such a good bowler.

If he had colour film and Matthew Prior standing back no-one would remotely consider him medium-pace. There is no way on Earth he only bowled at 71-72mph. He is one of England's greatest ever bowlers. It's very likely he bowled early-to-mid-80s. Godfrey Evans was simply a very, very, very good wicketkeeper who could stand up to the stumps to all but the quickest bowlers.

Honestly, how many overarm bowlers were successful in the 1900s or 1920s bowling what was in all likelihood medium-pace? Most of them were quick, fairly quick or fingerspin (and fingerspin was far more successful in those days). It's certainly not a WW2 thing.