Is Dale Steyn the worst ever best fast bowler in the world?

[pskov]

1. I think Steyn by the end of his career will go down as a great bowler and a contender for the All-Time South African XI. In 20 years time he will be looked on as a terrific bowler especially considering the general conditions he has bowled in during his career to date.

2. I think that the latter half of the 60s to the early 70s had a paucity of top fast bowlers similar to now. From Trueman's retirement to the debut of Lillee there wasn't really a great quick bowler around imho. Maybe John Snow was the best at the time, but I think Steyn can be considered better than him already.

 

[nightprowler10]

Hahaha at the people completely missing the point of the thread and bashing the Jew.

In any case, its an intriguing topic. Ask anyone whom the best quick right now is and a large portion will say Steyn outside of a few loyal fans. The guy is a very good bowler from what I've seen thus far and has a bright future but I don't think anyone would put him in their top 10 of the last 20 years unless inebriated. And the OP is absolutely spot on in saying that were Asif and Bond still playing they'd give Steyn a run for his money at the top spot, but would anyone put those two in a higher bracket than Steyn? I think it says a lot about the lack of quality seamers around the world.

As for the question in the thread title, I'd love to see what some of the more knowledgeable posters have to say about him but my guess would be that he's pretty close.

 

[Precambrian]

Well it's a hell of post to try to respond to, but I'll have a bash anyway.

I'm old fashioned enough to trust the evidence of my eyes more than brute statistics. People dismiss Lee "averages 30+, so can't be any good", but until this winter he'd been carrying the Australian attack since McWarne had gone. He'd added accuracy to his pace and hostility to become a more complete bowler. It looks like his peak may be a brief one, but I don't think it being greater than Steyn's peak is such a unreasonable contention.

One summer doesn't make an all time great. Lee carried Aussie attack around for precisely 1 year and has gone to shambles since Indian tour.

Steyn has been carrying SA attack ever since Polly left, in fact, even before Polly retired, and despite the flailing form of Ntini and the rookie Morkel, he's been consistently delivering the goods.

Plus, at the peak of Lee's career, from the all too brief period from Nov 2007 to Jun 2008, when he took 58 wickets @ 21.55 at SR of 42

Steyn, arguably not even at his peak. took 118 wickets in 20 matches from Jan 2007 to Dec 2008, @ 19.06 with SR of 33.5

And yet you suggest Lee was better than Steyn at his peak?

 

[Jigga988]

Are you crazy ? Will never be better ? you don't know raw talent, without steyn pace, he wouldn't be playing for SA.

I am just marely saying that they are both of similar age, Taylor just a bit younger I reckon, and Steyn is basically Taylor but he does everything slightly better, though having said that Taylor has had to carry the whole of our attack for about 4 years and could only now start to blossom in to a brilliant test bowler... but he'd have to improve alot before he gets better than Steyn and this is providing that Steyn doesn't improve at the same rate that Taylor is improving.

Btw, pitches only now were getting flat past 9 or 10 years, did Polly not have to bowl in the same conditions for at least half of his test career... just think atm, Steyn is a pretty poor best fast bowler, like I said unless he can be a constant threat as opposed to a threat one spell and average the next he will remain a poor best fast bowler ever.

 

[BoyBrumby]

One summer doesn't make an all time great. Lee carried Aussie attack around for precisely 1 year and has gone to shambles since Indian tour.

Steyn has been carrying SA attack ever since Polly left, in fact, even before Polly retired, and despite the flailing form of Ntini and the rookie Morkel, he's been consistently delivering the goods.

At no point did I call Lee an all time great. I said I think that, when at his peak, he's a better bowler than Steyn is at his zenith. I've already said his peak looks like being a brief one, but it does seem as if he's been hampered by injury this winter so we'll see in the summer, I suppose.

Moreover, I don't see how longeivity necessarily relates to this thread. Both Larwood & Tyson were probably the best fast bowlers in the world at one time and each ended up with fewer than 100 scalps.

& finally, no he hasn't been carrying the SA attack single-handed since Pollock gave it away. He did next to nothing up here last summer. Kallis, in fact, was the yarp's star performer with the ball.

 

[Precambrian]

At no point did I call Lee an all time great. I said I think that, when at his peak, he's a better bowler than Steyn is at his zenith. I've already said his peak looks like being a brief one, but it does seem as if he's been hampered by injury this winter so we'll see in the summer, I suppose.

Moreover, I don't see how longeivity necessarily relates to this thread. Both Larwood & Tyson were probably the best fast bowlers in the world at one time and each ended up with fewer than 100 scalps.

& finally, no he hasn't been carrying the SA attack single-handed since Pollock gave it away. He did next to nothing up here last summer. Kallis, in fact, was the yarp's star performer with the ball.

So you are basing it just on one series in England, when he was way below his best because he was injured??

Statistics don't lie. Lee has never looked more threatening than he did during Nov 07 to Jun 08. But Steyn has looked incredible except for the English tour since Jan 2007.

 

[_Ed_]

So you are basing it just on one series in England, when he was way below his best because he was injured??

Statistics don't lie. Lee has never looked more threatening than he did during Nov 07 to Jun 08. But Steyn has looked incredible except for the English tour since Jan 2007.

A bit inconsistent to say Steyn performed badly in England due to injury but not acknowledge the injury problems Lee has had since the India tour.

 

[Jigga988]

That is pretty funny considering Steyn took a bundle in one test against the Windies bowling medium pace of a few yards.

I think you should...

Someone's got a warped memory, Steyn might've come out of the series with good stats, but the fact is that SA would have lost the second test and thus the series if not for the batting of Boucher and Prince. I do remember Steyn getting slightly injured but he was hardly bowling medium pace around the 140k mark tbh if anything this improved his bowling as it enabled him to be more accurate, finally, must you say everything in such a matter-of-fact way...

 

[BoyBrumby]

So you are basing it just on one series in England, when he was way below his best because he was injured??

Statistics don't lie. Lee has never looked more threatening than he did during Nov 07 to Jun 08. But Steyn has looked incredible except for the English tour since Jan 2007.

FFS, read my post & try to answer like you haven't just had major brain surgery.

&, of course statistics lie sometimes. Ian Bell averages over 40 in test cricket; should we assume he's a competant test batsman currently? Matthew Hayden still averaged over 50 when he was ushered towards the exit. Were the Aussie selectors wrong too?

Cricket is a game played on a cut strip of grass, not statsguru, to paraphrase Swervy.

 

[Precambrian]

A bit inconsistent to say Steyn performed badly in England due to injury but not acknowledge the injury problems Lee has had since the India tour.

Sorry, but Lee has had double the years Steyn has had in his International cricket and yet took such a long time merely to make a mark.

And we are comparing only their peaks, right? Even after including England stats, Steyn's overall record during the peak is much better than that of Lee's.

 

[_Ed_]

We'll have to wait until SA tour India for a genuine comparison. That's a real test for a fast bowler, it wouldn't surprise me if Steyn's figures suffer a bit there.

 

[pasag]

We'll have to wait until SA tour India for a genuine comparison. That's a real test for a fast bowler, it wouldn't surprise me if Steyn's figures suffer a bit there.

They were there last year - Cricinfo - Records - South Africa in India Test Series, 2007/08 - Most wickets

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

We'll have to wait until SA tour India for a genuine comparison. That's a real test for a fast bowler, it wouldn't surprise me if Steyn's figures suffer a bit there.

You mean like when they did just before Australia did last year?

Cricinfo - Matches - South Africa in India Test Series, 2007/08

FTR, Steyn took 15 wickets in the 3 matches at an average of 20.

 

[_Ed_]

Should have had a look before saying that. Fair enough, full credit to him.

 

[pskov]

I am just marely saying that they are both of similar age, Taylor just a bit younger I reckon, and Steyn is basically Taylor but he does everything slightly better, though having said that Taylor has had to carry the whole of our attack for about 4 years and could only now start to blossom in to a brilliant test bowler... but he'd have to improve alot before he gets better than Steyn and this is providing that Steyn doesn't improve at the same rate that Taylor is improving.

Btw, pitches only now were getting flat past 9 or 10 years, did Polly not have to bowl in the same conditions for at least half of his test career... just think atm, Steyn is a pretty poor best fast bowler, like I said unless he can be a constant threat as opposed to a threat one spell and average the next he will remain a poor best fast bowler ever.

Steyn has the third best strike rate in test match history amongst bowlers who have taken 50 wickets, and the two guys ahead of him are Lohmann and Ferris who both played entirely in the 19th century. That's a better strike rate than Barnes, Waqar, Tyson, Spofforth etc. etc. That doesn't seem to jive with what you said above there.

Reading this thread I do think Steyn is underrated on here. He is in a completely different class to Lee that's for sure anyway.

I also think that there is an element of rose tinted spectacles and nostalgia looking back at the past, not in rating how good the great players were but in forgetting that there are periods of cricket gone by which were fallow areas too, we just never talk about them because they aren't so interesting. The 1990s was probably the greatest decade for fast bowling in the 20th century so because it is so recent it colours our expectations of how many great fast bowlers there should be around at any one time. If you dropped Steyn into any decade from the 20s to the 60s he would unquestionably be one of the very best at the time if not the best. And his career isn't over yet.

 

[0RI0N]

Why are ppl hating on steyn?the kids the best at the moment.

You want to hate? zaheer k, now there's a rubbish bowler,and btw he had an average series vs 0Z late 2008 bowling to off form batsmen. ugly stats. ave. Of 34?no man...putrid.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Why are ppl hating on steyn?the kids the best at the moment.

You want to hate? zaheer k, now there's a rubbish bowler,and btw he had an average series vs 0Z late 2008 bowling to off form batsmen. ugly stats. ave. Of 34?no man...putrid.

Fancy giving me an example of someone in this thread hating Steyn?

 

[Australia#1]

Statistic wise Steyn is the best at the moment but greatness is decided over one's career not ones start of there career, wait a few years then discuss Steyn again.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

It's absolutely baffling me how so many people can be missing the point of this thread.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

It's absolutely baffling me how so many people can be missing the point of this thread.

This!

Should be a bannable offense.