*Official* England in West Indies

[superkingdave]

Most dissapointing thing for me is that Dave's not going to get a look in for ages now.

In some ways is probably better that Jimmy didn't get to play in this debacle, but i'll be sick if he doesn't get picked for the next test. Can blatantly see England going for the 'these players got us into this mess so we are going to give them a chance to get us out of it' line though.

 

[honestbharani]

WOW..



have to catch the highlights somehow..

 

[chris.hinton]

Awful simply Awful

 

[GIMH]

 

[BoyBrumby]

As much as I cant stand Bell, he does average over 40 in test cricket

Whether you guys like to admit it or not, there isnt a team in the world that can afford to discard a player of that quality ATM

I don't buy that. Hayden still averaged over 50 when his time came.

A test average is a career long stat and can hide, as with Bell, the fact he's in appalling form just now. &, much as it's become almost a cliche to do so, if one excludes the cheaper runs Bell has versus Bangladesh his average drops by over 3 runs per innings to a not fantastic 37.52.

I'd quite happily take a pathetic Test defeat against this lot if it ends the England career of Ian Bell and Panesar goes to being an occasional horses for courses selection as he should be

The trouble is that this was exactly the sort of pitch a "horses for courses" policy would lead Panesar to being selected and he was still gash.

Well the replacements can't be that much worse in all honesty.

You're off your rocker if you think England is comparable to Australia. One side is going through a transition phase where heaps of new generation players are getting a go, the other is stuck in 05, refusing to drop players who fail time and time again.

Spot on. The levels of complacency surrounding England are unbelievable. & the idea of not replacing failing players because their replacements might not work is so wrong-headed as to defy belief.

 

[Goughy]

Spot on. The levels of complacency surrounding England are unbelievable. & the idea of not replacing failing players because their replacements might not work is so wrong-headed as to defy belief.

There is always a time when a players position in the team becomes untenable due to poor performance. Identifying when is a skill.

The question is always whether to ride out an extended poor run (like Taylor or Hayden), cut your losses and bring in new faces (Vaughan or Thorpe) or give a player a short sharp shock by dropping them for a game or two (Strauss or Prior).

 

[BoyBrumby]

There is always a time when a players position in the team becomes untenable due to poor performance. Identifying when is a skill.

The question is always whether to ride out an extended poor run (like Taylor or Hayden), cut your losses and bring in new faces (Vaughan or Thorpe) or give a player a short sharp shock by dropping them for a game or two (Strauss or Prior).

I wouldn't dispute it is a skill; if it were easy we could all be selectors. However, I do think the tipping point has been reached with Bell & Panesar too, probably. The former has a highest score of 50 in his last 12 innings & the latter served pies on a pitch that transformed Benn into a reasonable facsimilie of Alf Valentine.

I don't think Strauss or Prior were dropped just for giving them a kick up the aris purposes tho; if either Bopara or Ambrose had been up to it their roads back would've been a lot longer. Indeed, as Tiny Tim flattered to deceive initially, Prior had a rather longer spell out of the XI than his captain.

 

[Goughy]

I agree with Bell having reached the point. Im not ready to cast aside Cook yet, just as I wasnt ready for Strauss and didnt like all the calls for Collingwood to be dropped.

I think patience is key. You reach the point when you want to drop them then give them more time before you make a decision.

Bell is there. Panesar is a maybe. I, myself, would often play 4 seamers, though I think he is stil the #1 spinner.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The trouble is that this was exactly the sort of pitch a "horses for courses" policy would lead Panesar to being selected and he was still gash.

Well if it's a quicker pitch with bounce and turn he's a factor. You'd think someone might get it into his head about how to bowl on slow pitches - if not then the number of pitches he can be considered for pretty much reduces to Old Trafford.

Anyway his bowling average is rapidly heading towards 35, might even end up in the high 30s if he keeps being picked.

 

[Flem274*]

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
Rashid
Sidearse
Tremlett
Anderson

 

[silentstriker]

As much as I cant stand Bell, he does average over 40 in test cricket

Whether you guys like to admit it or not, there isnt a team in the world that can afford to discard a player of that quality ATM

Seriously? Bell? Ian Bell?


No thanks. I wouldn't want him carrying drinks for India. I'm sure Australia feel the same way. And probably SA and a couple other teams too.

 

[Prince EWS]

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
KP
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
Rashid
Sidearse
Tremlett
Anderson

Vaughan's not in the squad. Not going to play.

 

[Flem274*]

Seriously? Bell? Ian Bell?


No thanks. I wouldn't want him carrying drinks for India. I'm sure Australia feel the same way. And probably SA and a couple other teams too.

Even we wouldn't want him

"Oh and the NZ opener goes first ball of the match, now Ian Bell strides to the crease"

Oh ****!

We'll stick with Flynn thanks...

 

[BoyBrumby]

Jesus, just watching the highlights now. How badly was Powell sawn off?!? & it was referred too! Bat not within four inches of the ball.

Harper needs a curly wig & a red nose to complete the look, frankly.

 

[Flem274*]

Vaughan's not in the squad. Not going to play.

Pfft squads. Overrated. I just pick people regardless

Would England like a Pinga?

 

[silentstriker]

I don't understand the Vaughan love.

Here are his averages by each calendar year:

1. 28.69
2. 43.71
3. 61.70
4. 41.65
5. 35.60
6. 38.25
7. 47.56
8. 24.20

I mean, really? I've no clue about the domestic forms of Shah, Key, Bopara, or whoever is in line to replace him, but I'd rather take a chance on someone new than go back to that, even for a couple years.

 

[Jigga988]

Jesus, just watching the highlights now. How badly was Powell sawn off?!? & it was referred too! Bat not within four inches of the ball.

Harper needs a curly wig & a red nose to complete the look, frankly.

The excuse Harper tried to give for that was even more astounding than the actual decision, he said the time code got in the way of the ball, subsequently he couldn't see the ball and thus couldn't give the decision out.... so a time code got in his way but no one else's! Surely it was possible just to have removed the time code, umpires these days have thought up so much excuses since the referral decisions come in.... currently not a good advert for the referral system tbh.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Well obviously the fantastic tour in '02/'03 goes someway to clouding people's judgements over his current form. He is a really awesome player when he is in good nick, but sadly that time seems to be over now, which is a shame as he was one of my favourite players to watch.

Vaughan that is BTW.

 

[silentstriker]

Well obviously the fantastic tour in '02/'03 goes someway to clouding people's judgements over his current form. He is a really awesome player when he is in good nick, but sadly that time seems to be over now, which is a shame as he was one of my favourite players to watch.

Vaughan that is BTW.

But he seems to be in a bad nick a lot more than a good nick, so much so that the good nick seems to be an aberration, and his actual abilities are more in line with what he has actually done.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Well he has a few pretty major technical flaws, such as playing down the wrong line against outswing bowling, which causes him to be cleaned up by bowlers like Stein and Lee quite often. These seem to get in the way of what would otherwise be quite a good technique against most types of bowling. I don't think you can claim some of the fantastic innings he has had in the past to be flukes; you don't play that well by accident.