Pakistan Cricket news/views

[Precambrian]

 

[Fusion]

Why is that comical? At the risk of derailing this thread once again, I would think that in the current atmosphere there is some level of risk to Pakistani players. Even in "normal" times, groups like the VHP have made death threats against visiting Pakistani sides. It's not inconceivable to me that they or another extremist group might target Pakistani players right now when sentiments against Pakistan are quite high. Having said all that, I'm sure India would've provided adequate security if asked. To me it's all a moot point anyway because I doubt Pakistani players would even be wanted in IPL or ICL franchises.

 

[Uppercut]

Didn't relate them, just noted that I don't like them. Too many chefs spoil the broth.

I've always felt that teams without a solid leadership played more poorly than those under a strong leadership foundation. Now this isn't something you can compare across other teams but only with your own team. If NZ swapped captains every other match I'm sure we'd be by far the worst international team. India on the other hand have finally found a new long term captain in Dhoni, South Africa in Smith, Sri Lanka in Mahela, NZ in Vettori and Australia in Ponting.

I like a captain to have a good long tenure in any international team, defines the way they play the game.

But when a captain is successful, he stays the captain, giving the illusion that it was the fact that there was only one captain over a long period of time that caused the success.

It's the same issue that comes up when someone looks at England around their peak in 2004/05 (or any successful team) and says "...and one of the keys to that was a settled lineup!" They had a settled lineup because the players kept performing and you don't change a winning formula. Good players stay in the team, bad players don't. Good players win cricket matches, bad players don't. Therefore, teams that win cricket matches tend to have a settled lineup. It's not the settled lineup that causes the wins, and it's fallacies like these that lead to Ian Bell-end being selected repeatedly.

To bring it back round to the topic, i think that makes it fair enough for Pakistan to remove Malik from captaincy if they think he's no good. There's nothing worse than keeping a useless captain in charge for the sake of having the same captain for a long time.

 

[analyst]

Amusing thread, so basically how is this not spam ? If most of this whole thread is junk, for e.g. the argument that BCCI proposes to put PCB in exile when PCB are doing it themselves by failing to recognise their own failings. The war between ICL and IPL lured few bit part Pakistani players and two main players(Yousuf and Razzaq) and perhaps the likes of Rana and Saqlain who could have still played a part but other than that, the ICL vs IPL has nothing to do with the crisis Pakistan finds itself in. Cricket is suffering universally, it is mostly due to a lack of leadership, this was hidden due to Inzi's great leadership skills, he kept the team together and made them gel as a unit and more importantly made everyone play for the country, something that doesn't seem to be very high on a lot of people's list in Pakistan.

 

[Precambrian]

Why is that comical? At the risk of derailing this thread once again, I would think that in the current atmosphere there is some level of risk to Pakistani players. Even in "normal" times, groups like the VHP have made death threats against visiting Pakistani sides. It's not inconceivable to me that they or another extremist group might target Pakistani players right now when sentiments against Pakistan are quite high. Having said all that, I'm sure India would've provided adequate security if asked. To me it's all a moot point anyway because I doubt Pakistani players would even be wanted in IPL or ICL franchises.

No I was laughing at the potential consequence on the IPL as a result of Pakistani players not playing. Only Raj Royals are hit, as the lose Sohail Tanvir, Deccan Chargers will be relieved not to pay for Afridi. so will be Kolkota as regards to Butt and Akthar.

ICL however has received a death blow with the ban.

 

[Sanz]

Why is that comical? At the risk of derailing this thread once again, I would think that in the current atmosphere there is some level of risk to Pakistani players. Even in "normal" times, groups like the VHP have made death threats against visiting Pakistani sides. It's not inconceivable to me that they or another extremist group might target Pakistani players right now when sentiments against Pakistan are quite high. Having said all that, I'm sure India would've provided adequate security if asked. To me it's all a moot point anyway because I doubt Pakistani players would even be wanted in IPL or ICL franchises.

Pardon my ignorance and in no way I am trying to defend VHP but when did they give death threat to any Pakistani player or side ?

While I agree with the security threat for Pakistani players or Pakistanis in the current situation from the terrorists ShivSena, I doubt the sincerity of the decision taken or has much to do with the security. Did they even ask the players if they were willing to participate ? Secondly it is completely hypocritical and also comical of them (PCB) to expect other countries to tour Pakistan yet they themselves pull out when they had a chance to do so.

IPL/ICL are private leagues and I didn't see anyone coming out saying that they didn't want Pakistani players.

 

[Sanz]

No I was laughing at the potential consequence on the IPL as a result of Pakistani players not playing. Only Raj Royals are hit, as the lose Sohail Tanvir, Deccan Chargers will be relieved not to pay for Afridi. so will be Kolkota as regards to Butt and Akthar.

I dont think KKR wanted Akhtar anyway. From what one has read, They are very disappointed that they are going to be missing the services of Umar Gul.

 

[Precambrian]

I dont think KKR wanted Akhtar anyway. From what one has read, They are very disappointed that they are going to be missing the services of Umar Gul.

Agree. Gul too is a fine bowler. But again not irreplaceable as perhaps Tanvir was for RRs. Anyway, good riddance overall.

 

[Fusion]

Pardon my ignorance and in no way I am trying to defend VHP but when did they give death threat to any Pakistani player or side ?

While I agree with the security threat for Pakistani players or Pakistanis in the current situation from the terrorists ShivSena, I doubt the sincerity of the decision taken or has much to do with the security. Did they even ask the players if they were willing to participate ? Secondly it is completely hypocritical and also comical of them (PCB) to expect other countries to tour Pakistan yet they themselves pull out when they had a chance to do so.

IPL/ICL are private leagues and I didn't see anyone coming out saying that they didn't want Pakistani players.

I apologize, I confused VHP and Shiv Sena. I was referring to incidents like these:

Shiv Sena renews it threat against Pakistani players

Now you have a valid point about Pakistan advising its players to pull out and expecting others to tour Pakistan. What they should have done is ask India to provide adequate security. I'm sure if "state level" security was offered, then it would've been safe for any Pakistani player to participate. It's another matter whether IPL or ICL franchises could arrange such security from the Indian government.

 

[Sanz]

I apologize, I confused VHP and Shiv Sena. I was referring to incidents like these:

Shiv Sena renews it threat against Pakistani players

While I completely resent such a cowardly act from the Shiv Sena Militants, I dont think your statement about "death threat against visiting Pakistani sides'" is true.

That said, Shiv Sena Rats are out to score the cheap point again, when India needed them most in November, they were in their holes, hiding. Anyone harming or even threatening an innocent citizen of the world is a terrorist.

 

[Precambrian]

Excellent last few posts by Sanz and Fusion.

Shiv Sena, though their clout has vastly diminished all over India as compared to their peak in the 1990s, unfortunately holds some sway in Mumbai particularly. I wish these idiots and cowards, as Sanz said, who did not turn up during the Mumbai blasts, and were promptly ridiculed by the masses there, needs to be given the middle finger and ignored.

Pakistan should have toured India, as anything contrary is just short-sighted and not at all working in their favor. As Sanz said, now they have given a valid excuse for other countries not to tour Pakistan, and this might be the death blow for any serious International cricket in Pakistan.

Sad to see Pakistani authorities trying to enter into a pissing competition with the Indian ones, a battle they could never win, and fatally hurting themselves.

 

[haroon510]

Hey don't make threats about posting stuff that will lead to closing the thread. Whether the BCCI had a hand in America's War on Terror is a "yes or no" question. You either think "yes they did" or "no they did not".

So your statement "players like Yusuf and Razzaq" DOES NOT specifically include Yusuf & Razzaq. So who DOES it include?? Silly me for thinking that Yusuf & Razzaq would refer to Yusuf & Razzaq.


Well it seems like I will have to spell it out for you, because I have already posted this twice and you don't seem to get any of it.

1. BCCI wants PCB under their influence.
2. The reason why BCCI wants PCB under their influence is because they want PCB to ban certain Yusufs and Razzaqs.
3. If the PCB ban these Yusufs and Razzaqs, it will get in the good books of the BCCI.
4. If the PCB is in the good books of the BCCI then the BCCI can force Aus, NZ, SA & Eng to tour Pakistan.
5. If these countries tour Pakistan, then there will be a lot of cricket in Pakistan.
6. If there is such a lot of cricket in Pakistan then PCB will make a lot of money.
7. The PCB will invest all this money back into Pakistan to improve the game of cricket.

BUT

1. The PCB does not want to ban these Yusufs and Razzaqs.
2. These two players are very important.
3. The PCB would rather face the next 5 years (or however long this War on Terror goes along) without ANY cricket.
4. Therefore what you are saying is that these Yusufs & Razzaqs are worth more than the future of Pakistan Cricket.

Makes perfect sense.


This supports my statement above that You feel that Yusufs & Razzaqs are worth more than the future of Pakistan cricket.


Poor misunderstood you.......

So the PCB is being controlled by the BCCI who want the PCB to ban Yusufs & Razzaqs. You mention that the BCCI is not supporting the PCB for the cricket cause, but for political reasons. You then mention "many reasons". What are these many reasons? Please elaborate.


Why not, because as you said the BCCI wants the PCB to ban these Yusufs and Razzaqs, if the PCB ban them then there should be no reason why the BCCI (as you said) should not force everyone to tour Pakistan. Is there something that I have missed in you great conspiracy theory?

wow you r puting so much emotion and time on this.. My theory is BCCI wants PCB under it's power so they can munipulate the system..now take or leave it. whatever you want to make out of it.

 

[haroon510]

i am happy pakistani players aren't playing IPL..lets hope they don't play ICL as well and... in international level pakistan breaks cricketing tie with BCCI and india..

 

[Sanz]

i am happy pakistani players aren't playing IPL..lets hope they don't play ICL as well and... in international level pakistan breaks cricketing tie with BCCI and india..

The Important Question should be :- Are the Players happy ?

 

[silentstriker]

Pakistani cricket is almost dead. It'll be completely dead unless they play neutral venues. I definitely agree with the original piece.

 

[Matt79]

So, coming to this thread late, what's happened recently is:

1 - Cricket relations between Pakistan and India deteriorate sharply following Mumbai attacks.
2 - Indian tour cancelled.
3 - Suddenly the voices on the ICC board who don't want to play the CT in Pakistan get their way - as if a very influential board has ceased opposing the move.
4 - Suddenly, the ICC decides that its not that complicated to follow the rules set down by the MCC, and re-classifies the Oval test result, again as if a previously powerful bloc of votes that would have opposed that move has ceased doing so.
5 - Pakistan cricket, deciding it's efforts to keep the BCCI in its corner in their present difficulties are now futile, retaliates as much as it is able by withdrawing its players from the IPL and clearing the way for them to play in the ICL if they want.

Before people leap down my throat, I'm not having a go at the BCCI. Previously obviously they were using their influence to help support Pakistan as the leader of a pretty reliable coalition of votes. With the tragedy in Mumbai, the to-ing and fro-ing between people on both sides since, and now this series of decisions, it just seems pretty clear that the BCCI has abandoned the PCB, and unfortunately in the current perceived security situation, no other major nation is keen to help them either.

Sad to see.

 

[Uppercut]

So, coming to this thread late, what's happened recently is:

1 - Cricket relations between Pakistan and India deteriorate sharply following Mumbai attacks.
2 - Indian tour cancelled.
3 - Suddenly the voices on the ICC board who don't want to play the CT in Pakistan get their way - as if a very influential board has ceased opposing the move.
4 - Suddenly, the ICC decides that its not that complicated to follow the rules set down by the MCC, and re-classifies the Oval test result, again as if a previously powerful bloc of votes that would have opposed that move has ceased doing so.
5 - Pakistan cricket, deciding it's efforts to keep the BCCI in its corner in their present difficulties are now futile, retaliates as much as it is able by withdrawing its players from the IPL and clearing the way for them to play in the ICL if they want.

Before people leap down my throat, I'm not having a go at the BCCI. Previously obviously they were using their influence to help support Pakistan as the leader of a pretty reliable coalition of votes. With the tragedy in Mumbai, the to-ing and fro-ing between people on both sides since, and now this series of decisions, it just seems pretty clear that the BCCI has abandoned the PCB, and unfortunately in the current perceived security situation, no other major nation is keen to help them either.

Sad to see.

Yeah i think you've got it very much right. Are Pakistani players allowed to play in the ICL though? I never heard about that...

 

[R_D]

Yeah i think you've got it very much right. Are Pakistani players allowed to play in the ICL though? I never heard about that...

Probaly not.... as the foreign ministry blocked the IPL players so same would happen to ICL players. Looks like ICL will have a slow death.... isn't it half filled with Pakistani players.

 

[Matt79]

Except it hasn't, has it?

 

[Precambrian]

So, coming to this thread late, what's happened recently is:

1 - Cricket relations between Pakistan and India deteriorate sharply following Mumbai attacks.
2 - Indian tour cancelled.
3 - Suddenly the voices on the ICC board who don't want to play the CT in Pakistan get their way - as if a very influential board has ceased opposing the move.
4 - Suddenly, the ICC decides that its not that complicated to follow the rules set down by the MCC, and re-classifies the Oval test result, again as if a previously powerful bloc of votes that would have opposed that move has ceased doing so.
5 - Pakistan cricket, deciding it's efforts to keep the BCCI in its corner in their present difficulties are now futile, retaliates as much as it is able by withdrawing its players from the IPL and clearing the way for them to play in the ICL if they want.

Before people leap down my throat, I'm not having a go at the BCCI. Previously obviously they were using their influence to help support Pakistan as the leader of a pretty reliable coalition of votes. With the tragedy in Mumbai, the to-ing and fro-ing between people on both sides since, and now this series of decisions, it just seems pretty clear that the BCCI has abandoned the PCB, and unfortunately in the current perceived security situation, no other major nation is keen to help them either.

Sad to see.

It was India's foreign policy that disallowed Pakistan tour from taking place in the first place.