**Official** New Zealand in Australia

[Howsie]

If Oram, Elliott, Styris and Ryder all play in the same match, do we have too many options then? Would it be worth playing another batsman? Surely the four specialist bowlers should be expected to get through 35-40 overs, but 10-15 sounds a bit light for the other "all-round" players.

But how long untill Oram gives up bowling for good, New Zealand needs him for his batting, and although he is a pretty decent bowler his impact with the bat is too high for him to be injured all the time.

 

[Uppercut]

I would rather see McCullum play his natural game, although I would rather see Guptill opening with him and playing the sort of innings McCullum played today. With Ryder batting at five.

I think generally that in any ODI side you want two of your top three to be the aggressive type and one who'll tend to stick around, and i think that's the right way to go. You could have McCullum and Ryder with Taylor, or McCullum and Ryder with Guptill, or you could put Ryder at 5 and instruct Taylor to play positively (he can do both) but i think that should be the general rule of thumb.

 

[Uppercut]

Patel always bowls in powerplays.

Hm, thought he was more of a middle-overs/death type.

 

[Athlai]

Hm, thought he was more of a middle-overs/death type.

He is but he always gets a few powerplay overs. Since the advent of the batsmans powerplays he tends to be taken off for those and put in at the death. However when Vettori gets to call the powerplay he usually puts Patel in.

Backs Jeets to either go for little or to take a wicket does Dan.

 

[Howsie]

He is but he always gets a few powerplay overs. Since the advent of the batsmans powerplays he tends to be taken off for those and put in at the death. However when Vettori gets to call the powerplay he usually puts Patel in.

Backs Jeets to either go for little or to take a wicket does Dan.

Maybe Vettori is hoping Patel can become a good death-bowler. Thus giving us a reason to include him in most of our ODI games. Because lets face it, we don't have good pace death bowlers at all.

 

[Uppercut]

The one thing i hate about Vettori's captaincy is that he always bowls himself at the easiest of times. The West Indies found him so awkward they eventually made it their gameplan to go at 2 an over against him. He's possibly the toughest bowler to hit out against in world cricket but never bowls himself at the death.

 

[Athlai]

Maybe Vettori is hoping Patel can become a good death-bowler. Thus giving us a reason to include him in most of our ODI games. Because lets face it, we don't have good pace death bowlers at all.

I believe Patel is already rated by Vettori as a good death bowler. (Not the last two overs or anything but certainly a few in the last 10)

Basically Jeetan works his game around what the team needs in one day cricket, making his fielding as high level as possible and his bowling versatile. Even his batting has improved. His knock against SL in the semi's is still one of my favorite cricketing moments.

 

[Athlai]

The one thing i hate about Vettori's captaincy is that he always bowls himself at the easiest of times. The West Indies found him so awkward they eventually made it their gameplan to go at 2 an over against him. He's possibly the toughest bowler to hit out against in world cricket but never bowls himself at the death.

Little hard to explain that, I think he is most effective at bowling all his overs in one or two big spells. Yet he bowls best with his set field and tying down batsman. Yet when he gets hit for 0-40, 1-40 that tactic just doesn't work and his minimizing work isn't big enough to counteract the slog at the death.

 

[Howsie]

The one thing i hate about Vettori's captaincy is that he always bowls himself at the easiest of times. The West Indies found him so awkward they eventually made it their gameplan to go at 2 an over against him. He's possibly the toughest bowler to hit out against in world cricket but never bowls himself at the death.

LOL, that's what my Dad always goes on about. He can't stand Vettori and always goes on about how he bowls himself during the middle with no powerplays on.

 

[Uppercut]

Little hard to explain that, I think he is most effective at bowling all his overs in one or two big spells. Yet he bowls best with his set field and tying down batsman. Yet when he gets hit for 0-40, 1-40 that tactic just doesn't work and his minimizing work isn't big enough to counteract the slog at the death.

LOL, that's what my Dad always goes on about. He can't stand Vettori and always goes on about how he bowls himself during the middle with no powerplays on.

Yeah, at best he's underrating himself, and at worst he's trying to tailor his figures. Sehwag used him late on in T20 matches for Delhi in the few matches he played and he was incredible. In fact, his T20 record in general shows he's incredible when batsmen try to hit out at him. He's the best middle-over bowler in the game, but it'd be a lot more use to the team if he bowled at the death sometimes.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah, at best he's underrating himself, and at worst he's trying to tailor his figures. Sehwag used him late on in T20 matches for Delhi in the few matches he played and he was incredible. In fact, his T20 record in general shows he's incredible when batsmen try to hit out at him. He's the best middle-over bowler in the game, but it'd be a lot more use to the team if he bowled at the death sometimes.

Well when he's playing guys like Patel and Gillespie who are specialist death bowlers (Patel with some success Gillespie with none) then why should he bowl himself? He needs to back the players chosen for those roles to do it and stick to his best role.

Yet I think Gillespie may be done and dusted in the Black Caps and we may see Patel and Vettori bowling to overs 45-46-47 more frequently.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah, at best he's underrating himself, and at worst he's trying to tailor his figures. Sehwag used him late on in T20 matches for Delhi in the few matches he played and he was incredible. In fact, his T20 record in general shows he's incredible when batsmen try to hit out at him. He's the best middle-over bowler in the game, but it'd be a lot more use to the team if he bowled at the death sometimes.

But remember what Gayle did to him in that "Super Over" Vettori bowled real well in that game, but was smashed when Gayle went after him.

 

[Uppercut]

Well when he's playing guys like Patel and Gillespie who are specialist death bowlers (Patel with some success Gillespie with none) then why should he bowl himself? He needs to back the players chosen for those roles to do it and stick to his best role.

Yet I think Gillespie may be done and dusted in the Black Caps and we may see Patel and Vettori bowling to overs 45-46-47 more frequently.

Because he's the captain and its his job to win matches. He can't say, "well bowling myself at the end will win us the game... but Mark Gillespie was picked for that, so i'll bowl him instead."

 

[Uppercut]

But remember what Gayle did to him in that "Super Over" Vettori bowled real well in that game, but was smashed when Gayle went after him.

Yeah, true. That's very rare though. Seriously, check out his T20 record. It's the best in the world.

 

[Athlai]

Because he's the captain and its his job to win matches. He can't say, "well bowling myself at the end will win us the game... but Mark Gillespie was picked for that, so i'll bowl him instead."

He has 50 overs to bowl and he can't do them all himself. Gillespie is a bowler who is supposed to be able to find the block hole, it isn't Vettori's fault that Gillespie fails at his 'specialist role'. It would however be Vettori's fault if he put him Gillespie in the middle overs and he went at 5-6 an over out of his normal bowling position.

 

[vic_orthdox]

He's also one of very few bowlers who can actually build pressure in the middle overs and create wickets.

 

[_Ed_]

But how long untill Oram gives up bowling for good, New Zealand needs him for his batting, and although he is a pretty decent bowler his impact with the bat is too high for him to be injured all the time.

I don't think he's quite good enough to make the team as a specialist bat though.

 

[GGG]

I don't think he's quite good enough to make the team as a specialist bat though.

averaging over 40 for the last 3 years but I do agree with you as in who would he replace.






i

 

[Bahnz]

Guptill, McCullum, Fulton, Taylor, Cumming, Broom, Elliot, Mills, Vettori, Southee, O'Brien

I hope that O'Brien manages to produce some better cricket, because I shudder to think of the kind of beating that Boult could get if the selectors are forced to pick him.

 

[thierry henry]

LOL, that's what my Dad always goes on about. He can't stand Vettori and always goes on about how he bowls himself during the middle with no powerplays on.

I love your Dad lol

I think Vettori is certainly most effective through the middle overs- because no-one is trying to attack him. He then gets this impressive reputation as a containing bowler and opposing teams are happy to play him out- it's a horrible cycle that benefits Vettori

Seriously, regardless of whether or not I really believe that (I think it's a small factor, he's obviously a good ODI bowler), I think he shirks the tough stuff, and I actually think he's right to shirk it. Whenever I have seen Vettori bowl to batsmen really going the tonk, he gets tonked.