• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Matthew Hayden Retires - Tribute Thread ***Breaking News***

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
You're entitled to your opinion. And whilst I considerably disagree with it, its not ridiculous to rate Ponting higher than Sachin IMO.

But suggesting that Sachin didn't score against good quality bowling is ludicrous.
Pretty sure no one has said he didn't score against high quality bowling. But there's this misconception that Sachin scored runs (meaning an ample amount of them) against everybody, the best, in the 90s, when it was tougher to do so. Just read Kumar Sangakkara's article about him that was on Cricinfo just a while ago. But it's just not true.

If you don't agree with the rankings, that's fine. But why dismiss everything as if someone is trying to denigrate or destroy Tendulkar? Why can't someone be saying something not flattering him and it be the plain truth?

I just did a little analysis, for what it's worth; in that "peak" period defined by Precambrian, in matches including these bowlers: Ambrose, Walsh, Wasim Akram, Waqar, Akhtar, Donald and Pollock:

Tendulkar: 41.75 in 22 matches
Ponting: 57.96 in 24 matches

I'm sure there are mitigating factors here and there, but without getting into a lengthy discussion about them I think the above still says quite a lot.
 
Last edited:

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Seriously, who cares what someone rates as higher than someone else? It's not like you can ever change each other's minds.

I don't believe Murali and Warne as good in terms of value as the top five or ten of the pace bowlers in history of cricket, but 99% of people, I'm sure, disagree with me (maybe more than that). It doesn't matter, I have my reasons, sometimes I trot them out, sometimes I let it go. I don't think anyone need to take it as an insult to X or Y that people believe something.
 

shankar

International Debutant
He averages about 36-37 when Tendulkar faces both Warne and McGrath - when it's McGrath by himself, even less.

And when Tendulkar started making runs against the Pakistanis they were no longer the force of the 90s.

These things would explain it.
Only those who didn't watch any cricket in the 90's/early 00's and relied only on Statsguru could come to that conclusion. Tendulkar faced McGrath and Warne in 3 series. In the '99 one in Aus he was the Man of the series averaging 46. In the '01 seroes he was instrumental in India winning the series with an average of 50. In the BG series of 2004 he was included in the side midway in the series as a desperate move since India were trailing 0-1. He had been out with tennis elbow and had had no match practice and not surprisingly struggled to get the ball off the square.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
"Since January 2007 international cricket has suffered an extraordinary, almost certainly unparalleled, spate of retirements. From the Olympian (Adam Gilchrist, Sanath Jayasuriya, Anil Kumble, Brian Lara, Glenn McGrath, Shaun Pollock and Shane Warne) to the merely marvellous (Sourav Ganguly, Stephen Fleming, Jason Gillespie, Matthew Hayden, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Justin Langer, Stuart MacGill), these are all grievous losses. "

http://content-eap.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/387181.html

So now Jayasuria > Hayden? I just don't get the Hayden hate, TBH. What has the guy done wrong? He has a brilliant average, and I'd take him over Jayasuria in my test team ANY DAY. And when you're talking about people retiring, who really gives a **** about ODI cricket? There's an ODI played every 3 hours these days.
 

Precambrian

Banned
"Since January 2007 international cricket has suffered an extraordinary, almost certainly unparalleled, spate of retirements. From the Olympian (Adam Gilchrist, Sanath Jayasuriya, Anil Kumble, Brian Lara, Glenn McGrath, Shaun Pollock and Shane Warne) to the merely marvellous (Sourav Ganguly, Stephen Fleming, Jason Gillespie, Matthew Hayden, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Justin Langer, Stuart MacGill), these are all grievous losses. "

Cricinfo - For the love of Duminy

So now Jayasuria > Hayden? I just don't get the Hayden hate, TBH. What has the guy done wrong? He has a brilliant average, and I'd take him over Jayasuria in my test team ANY DAY. And when you're talking about people retiring, who really gives a **** about ODI cricket? There's an ODI played every 3 hours these days.
Yeah the Jayasurya reference got me also confused.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
Not just that but look at this:

...Duminy, the Strandfontein Strokemeister, for giving South Africa's overwhelming black majority their first batting superstar.
Duminy is not black - he is coloured. There's a huge difference in SA, as I'm sure the SAffers here can detail about.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Haigh on Hayden

From today's Guardian.

Interesting and thought provoking stuff from Gideon, as ever. Two very interesting stats: Hayden averages way more at home than away (58 to 41) and far more under Waugh as captain than Taylor or Ponting (67 to 41).
 

Evermind

International Debutant
From today's Guardian.

Interesting and thought provoking stuff from Gideon, as ever. Two very interesting stats: Hayden averages way more at home than away (58 to 41) and far more under Waugh as captain than Taylor or Ponting (67 to 41).
FWIW, Hayden sure ain't among the top 10 test batsmen of all time. Hell, he's probably not even in the top 20. But sure he was more of a test opener than Jayasuria!?
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
FWIW, Hayden sure ain't among the top 10 test batsmen of all time. Hell, he's probably not even in the top 20. But sure he was more of a test opener than Jayasuria!?
Maybe the author meant that Jayasuriya meant an Olympian amount to his team than Hayden did for his????????
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
From today's Guardian.

Interesting and thought provoking stuff from Gideon, as ever. Two very interesting stats: Hayden averages way more at home than away (58 to 41) and far more under Waugh as captain than Taylor or Ponting (67 to 41).
If Haigh isn't the best cricket writer in the business he's so close as to make no difference. However, I honestly think that’s one of his weaker pieces for two reasons. First, and I know it’s been done to death, but his paragraph about the ICC ratings looks like he’s been reading too many Indian newspapers and has disappointingly bought into the hype of considering those ratings to be something that they’re not and were never meant to be.

Secondly, his point about Haydos’ average under different captains is a little misleading – under Taylor, Hayden played a handful of Tests over a period of several years and was in and out of the side, trying to establish himself and generally not being very successful. Under Ponting he’s had some great success but this period also encompasses the final part of his career where his form slumped and his average fell away. The Waugh years were in the middle of his career when he was at his peak, in between the early career baby-steps and the late career decline. It’s natural in that respect that he averaged more under his middle skipper than his first or last.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
So now Jayasuria > Hayden? I just don't get the Hayden hate, TBH. What has the guy done wrong? He has a brilliant average, and I'd take him over Jayasuria in my test team ANY DAY. And when you're talking about people retiring, who really gives a **** about ODI cricket? There's an ODI played every 3 hours these days.
FWIW, Hayden sure ain't among the top 10 test batsmen of all time. Hell, he's probably not even in the top 20. But sure he was more of a test opener than Jayasuria!?
Couldn't agree more. Hayden unquestionably a greater Test opener than Sanath in my books.
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If Haigh isn't the best cricket writer in the business he's so close as to make no difference. However, I honestly think that’s one of his weaker pieces for two reasons. First, and I know it’s been done to death, but his paragraph about the ICC ratings looks like he’s been reading too many Indian newspapers and has disappointingly bought into the hype of considering those ratings to be something that they’re not and were never meant to be.

Secondly, his point about Haydos’ average under different captains is a little misleading – under Taylor, Hayden played a handful of Tests over a period of several years and was in and out of the side, trying to establish himself and generally not being very successful. Under Ponting he’s had some great success but this period also encompasses the final part of his career where his form slumped and his average fell away. The Waugh years were in the middle of his career when he was at his peak, in between the early career baby-steps and the late career decline. It’s natural in that respect that he averaged more under his middle skipper than his first or last.
AWTA, well said :)
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Hayden's mediocre away average isn't mentioned too much to be fair. I always felt he and Lara's records away are glossed over a bit when discussions of their greatness are brought up.

Obviously doesn't "not" make them great though.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
If Haigh isn't the best cricket writer in the business he's so close as to make no difference. However, I honestly think that’s one of his weaker pieces for two reasons. First, and I know it’s been done to death, but his paragraph about the ICC ratings looks like he’s been reading too many Indian newspapers and has disappointingly bought into the hype of considering those ratings to be something that they’re not and were never meant to be.

Secondly, his point about Haydos’ average under different captains is a little misleading – under Taylor, Hayden played a handful of Tests over a period of several years and was in and out of the side, trying to establish himself and generally not being very successful. Under Ponting he’s had some great success but this period also encompasses the final part of his career where his form slumped and his average fell away. The Waugh years were in the middle of his career when he was at his peak, in between the early career baby-steps and the late career decline. It’s natural in that respect that he averaged more under his middle skipper than his first or last.
Yeah, very well said.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Hayden's mediocre away average isn't mentioned too much to be fair. I always felt he and Lara's records away are glossed over a bit when discussions of their greatness are brought up.

Obviously doesn't "not" make them great though.
AWTA. Hayden's away average sucks for being called a great. Maybe an Aussie great.
 

Top