***Official India in New Zealand***

[Zinzan]

AFAIK in England the actual cricket team has no control whatsoever over what type of pitch is produced (although obviously their groundsmen are more likely to be sympathetic to them). Some do, some don't. I have no major objection to it but it gives your opponents one extra thing to whinge about it if you beat them.

Fair call re England & their pitches, now I think about it, can't say I can recall them trying to prepare wickets to suit the home side very often

 

[Uppercut]

Fair call re England & their pitches, now I think about it, can't say I can recall them trying to prepare wickets to suit the home side very often

What would you prepare to suit England though? Unless they needed a draw pitch to secure a series, there's no clear England-favouring pitch. India do it because it's always been so obviously in their favour to play on a classic subcontinent turner.

 

[Zinzan]

What would you prepare to suit England though? Unless they needed a draw pitch to secure a series, there's no clear England-favouring pitch. India do it because it's always been so obviously in their favour to play on a classic subcontinent turner.

True, although I suppose generally green decks would have helped them over the years against subcontinent teams, although probably not much advantage over the likes of India these days with their more than useful seamers

 

[Polo23]

Maybe not drop-in pitches, but I've only seen vicious pitches prepared for India, while several other teams played on relatively easy surfaces. Those were pitches where we saw Jacob Oram, then Andre Adams, take five in an innings, while Daryl Tuffey upstaged Shane Bond as a frontline bowler and Scott Styris was a frontline seamer. Those pitches were so controversial, that NZC Chief Martin Snedden publicly said that they were not up to international standard, right after the ODI series against India, during the presentation ceremony. I wonder if the pitches for this series will be like those.

There was nothing wrong with those pitches. They were the same for both teams. Sure they offered quite a bit of assistance, but it wasn't as if they drastically flattened out as soon as NZ came out to bat. India played poorly that whole series, complained as much as possible and showed a pretty poor attitude. I don't see any team complain when they have to play in India on crumbling pitches which have no grass. The home team should have the right to produce whatever pitches they like IMO.

 

[adharcric]

I don't see what's wrong with us creating full on green-seamers if that's what Vettori and the Black Caps want. The advantage of playing at home, and I don't see anything wrong with it personally. Prepare pitches that will give us the best chance against India.

I'm actually hoping for a few greentops as I can see it working to India's advantage this time.

 

[Precambrian]

I think IK Pathan, if managed properly, has the potential to be as good as Kapil.

Lol

 

[Precambrian]

I don't see what's wrong with us creating full on green-seamers if that's what Vettori and the Black Caps want. The advantage of playing at home, and I don't see anything wrong with it personally. Prepare pitches that will give us the best chance against India.

Actually it might not.

Recently Sharma slaughtered a domestic attack on a greentop. And the batting department of that team and NZ are not much dissimilar. Add to that Zaheer Khan who can be devilish in favorable conditions.

 

[adharcric]

Jadeja is among the top ten run-scorers in the Ranji Trophy, alongside Jaffer, Pujara, Rahane and Sharma- one regular reserve and three youngsters like Jadeja who are often considered as Test prospects. Jadeja also gets wickets, so that should put him ahead at least slightly.

One good season doesn't buy you a place in the test squad. Pujara and Sharma were already established as national prospects coming into this season and Rahane's not a legitimate contender precisely because it's too early for him. Jadeja was nowhere near being a test prospect before putting up these numbers; he deserves the one-day call-up based on this season and if he does well against international opposition there, he's ready for a test call-up IMO.

Of course. You still can't risk any of them bowling more than 25 overs in an innings.

The point is that going into the first test, you'd expect our in-form seamers to wrap things up without having to overexert themselves, especially if we get a greentop in New Zealand. Conversely, the middle-order is still questionable and that's where we need to play it safe for now. Of course, we may need an all-rounder in certain conditions.

 

[adharcric]

Actually it might not.

Recently Sharma slaughtered a domestic attack on a greentop. And the batting department of that team and NZ are not much dissimilar. Add to that Zaheer Khan who can be devilish in favorable conditions.

Did you just compare Orissa and New Zealand?

 

[Arjun]

Umm, whats new & whats your point ? Isn't this what every home side has endeavored to do since international cricket began ?, that is preparation to favor the home team

I've seen such pitches appear only when India was touring then. Yes, several years have passed since then, but the Indians haven't gone back even once, so we don't know what's likely to appear.

There was nothing wrong with those pitches. They were the same for both teams. Sure they offered quite a bit of assistance, but it wasn't as if they drastically flattened out as soon as NZ came out to bat. India played poorly that whole series, complained as much as possible and showed a pretty poor attitude. I don't see any team complain when they have to play in India on crumbling pitches which have no grass. The home team should have the right to produce whatever pitches they like IMO.

I've never seen such pitches laid for any team other than India. Kiwi pitches have usually been relatively flat, and there are a few which help their spinners a little. That's how it's been ever since Dec 2002- Jan 2003. The Indians may have had a bad series, and we know one obvious source of all those complaints and bad attitude, but that was India's best side at the time.

That said, I'm not totally against this idea, but I was just curious of what is likely to be laid. After all, it's been long since the Indians came to New Zealand for a Test series.

 

[Arjun]

One good season doesn't buy you a place in the test squad. Pujara and Sharma were already established as national prospects coming into this season and Rahane's not a legitimate contender precisely because it's too early for him. Jadeja was nowhere near being a test prospect before putting up these numbers; he deserves the one-day call-up based on this season and if he does well against international opposition there, he's ready for a test call-up IMO.

Pujara and Sharma were hyped as national prospects under dubious circumstances- both were young greenhorns from the Under-19 phase, while Badrinath was still slogging it out since a long time. All of these players had a great season, and they all deserve a look-in. Jadeja also gets you wickets, and thus adds far more value than one who doesn't, so that's something to think about. It's not just numbers- he's propelled Saurashtra to the Ranji semis, so that's impact on a match.

The point is that going into the first test, you'd expect our in-form seamers to wrap things up without having to overexert themselves, especially if we get a greentop in New Zealand. Conversely, the middle-order is still questionable and that's where we need to play it safe for now. Of course, we may need an all-rounder in certain conditions.

We've seen it happen too often- the seamers are not up to the task of wrapping up the batting side within 90 overs, if the pitch doesn't help them enough. We don't know what the curators in New Zealand will prepare, and if they feel their batsmen need the flat deck advantage, we may see a flat deck. Four Indian bowlers are not enough to take 20 wickets on a flat deck, while the Kiwis can score a lot more than expected. Likewise, if it's a flat deck, only the top five of the top six are relevant, so anyone at six or seven is redundant. A top six with Sachin, Dravid, Sehwag and useful support from Laxman and Gambhir is hardly questionable- yes, Dravid is out of form, but he's a class player, and all five will thrive on a flat deck.

 

[adharcric]

I'm assuming we won't get flat pitches in New Zealand. Otherwise, sure you can play Jadeja (or Irfan) as the all-rounder.

 

[Precambrian]

Did you just compare Orissa and New Zealand?

Yes Actually their batting.

 

[James]

Actually it might not.

Recently Sharma slaughtered a domestic attack on a greentop. And the batting department of that team and NZ are not much dissimilar. Add to that Zaheer Khan who can be devilish in favorable conditions.

Yeah, producing green seamers this time probably isn't such a good idea due to the massive difference in the quality of the Indian attack that is coming this time compared to the last tour.

I don't see what's wrong with a country producing pitches to suit them though. I think it makes cricket interesting that you know when you go to India for example, you have to play spin well.

 

[Precambrian]

Yeah, producing green seamers this time probably isn't such a good idea due to the massive difference in the quality of the Indian attack that is coming this time compared to the last tour.

I don't see what's wrong with a country producing pitches to suit them though. I think it makes cricket interesting that you know when you go to India for example, you have to play spin well.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Host team preparing pitches suiting them. Otherwise the whole point of the home-away test matches will be futile.

 

[Raghav]

I will be rooting for NZ white wash India 3-0 in tests & 5-0 in ODIs.

Yeah.. I do hope that...

NZ had inflicted heavy losses when India toured in 2003. I would like to see same sort of performances from NZ. However, NZ miss Stephen Fleming and other handful of experiance guys.. But still, McCullum, Taylor and Vettori can do well to show that NZ can match India's young men on the NZ tracks

 

[Arjun]

Yeah, producing green seamers this time probably isn't such a good idea due to the massive difference in the quality of the Indian attack that is coming this time compared to the last tour.

That Indian attack was actually quite good, but they didn't have the right options in the XI- it was their batting which let them down more.

I don't see what's wrong with a country producing pitches to suit them though. I think it makes cricket interesting that you know when you go to India for example, you have to play spin well.

Me neither. Unfortunately, in India, pitches no longer favour the spinners- instead, they favour large first-innings scores for the team batting first, and have become drab draw wickets or win-the-toss-bag-the-match pitches. We've seen some classic turning wickets occasionally, but experts, Indian and otherwise, have dubbed them as 'not up to international standard'.

 

[Arjun]

I'm assuming we won't get flat pitches in New Zealand. Otherwise, sure you can play Jadeja (or Irfan) as the all-rounder.

On a pitch that's not too flat, you pick the better batsman among the all-rounders. Jadeja is actually a better choice when batting isn't so easy. For four Indian bowlers to cheaply bowl the Kiwis out twice regularly, they'll need pitches like those infamous ones of 2002-03.

 

[Uppercut]

Actually it might not.

Recently Sharma slaughtered a domestic attack on a greentop. And the batting department of that team and NZ are not much dissimilar. Add to that Zaheer Khan who can be devilish in favorable conditions.

It's probably the lesser of two evils though, because the batsmen will be more used to playing quality seam on a greentop than Harbs+Mishy on a turner. If the pitches are flat and the ball doesn't swing New Zealand will be in the field for days so they won't thank the curator for those pitches either.

 

[Precambrian]

On a pitch that's not too flat, you pick the better batsman among the all-rounders. Jadeja is actually a better choice when batting isn't so easy. For four Indian bowlers to cheaply bowl the Kiwis out twice regularly, they'll need pitches like those infamous ones of 2002-03.

I disagree vehemently reg Jadeja. From whatever I have seen him in the domestic level, all his high scores were on flat pitches against sub-standard pace bowlers and decent spinners. Exactly the opposite of conditions he can expect in NZ. I don't think he should be anywhere near Test selection or ODIs at the moment.