***Official*** South Africa In Australia

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Rose tinted glasses view

Oz have been in dominant positions in all 3 tests and SA could be staring down the gun-barrel of a 3-0 whitewash themselves

Realists view

Bowlers are inexperienced and inconsistent and unable to maintain pressure for long enough to finish the Saffies off

Cause for optimism

Siddle and Johnson are very rapid (Johnson has been clearly the quickest bowler in this series whilst Siddle hit 149 ks today), look real quality and should form the basis of a very strong attack for years to come

Cause for pessimism

Haurritz looked terrible today

 

[howardj]

Nah DWTA, they tried it in the first test and Kallis was driving off the front foot like a beast. England only owned him by getting it to swing late, unless Australia can get movement through the air they're just as well sticking everything on a length to Kallis.

I'm talking early doors, mate. Early doors You have to bowl fullish to him early on (our express bowlers) something we have not done. Lee didn't even get brought in to the attack ealy on against him in Perth or Melbourne.

 

[howardj]

Rose tinted glasses view

Oz have been in dominant positions in all 3 tests and SA could be staring down the gun-barrel of a 3-0 whitewash themselves

Realists view

Bowlers are inexperienced and inconsistent and unable to maintain pressure for long enough to finish the Saffies off

Cause for optimism

Siddle and Johnson are very rapid (Johnson has been clearly the quickest bowler in this series whilst Siddle hit 149 ks today), look real quality and should form the basis of a very strong attack for years to come

Cause for pessimism

Haurritz looked terrible today

I disagree with that. Although yes, after the 2nd day of each Test, we have been in the ascendency, we have never really looked like taking 20 wickets. We've played six marque Tests this Summer (four against India, and this current Series), only once have we taken 20 wickets.

 

[howardj]

Mate, I don't think our traditional balance has really been five specialist bowlers though. Just on all-rounders, I think, as with BLee when he started out, a guy like Johnson is much more likely to be an allrounder than someone like North, Symonds or MacDonald who are really batsmen who can bowl. History shows, with guys like Akram, Dev, Imran, Pollock, Hadlee etc, that the best allrounders start out as gun bowlers and develop their batting. To this end, I think Johnson should really work on this aspect of his game.

.

I think I will be, as with today, thoroughly vindicated in this regard.

If we want a genuine allrounder, then Johson is our best prospect (leaving aside the hapless Watson).

 

[susudear]

Honest intention

I think I will be, as with today, thoroughly vindicated in this regard.

If we want a genuine allrounder, then Johson is our best prospect (leaving aside the hapless Watson).

I understand the honesty behind the comparison, but cannot prevent myself from a chuckle when I see the name of players to which Johnson is compared to.

At best Australia can expect Johnson to be a workhorse bowler averaging in the high twenties-low thirties with the ball, and lower-twenties with the bat.

Not that at this point it is bad.

 

[social]

I understand the honesty behind the comparison, but cannot prevent myself from a chuckle when I see the name of players to which Johnson is compared to.

At best Australia can expect Johnson to be a workhorse bowler averaging in the high twenties-low thirties with the ball, and lower-twenties with the bat.

Not that at this point it is bad.

Johnson will average mid-20s with the ball - he is consistently the quickest in test cricket at present, durable, left handed and learning all the time. Only problem is that Oz might have to bowl him into the ground

As a batsman, he's a good hitter and low 20s would be a bonus

 

[NUFAN]

I do wonder what will end up higher, Johnson's Test batting or bowling averages.?
Hopefully the batting obviously.

 

[howardj]

I understand the honesty behind the comparison, but cannot prevent myself from a chuckle when I see the name of players to which Johnson is compared to.

At best Australia can expect Johnson to be a workhorse bowler averaging in the high twenties-low thirties with the ball, and lower-twenties with the bat.

Not that at this point it is bad.

Not saying he will be as good as those guys, just that that is our best chance of producing a genuine allrounder - get a guy who can bowl and who has some rough talent with the bat, to work on his batting.

 

[susudear]

He might be all that

Johnson will average mid-20s with the ball - he is consistently the quickest in test cricket at present, durable, left handed and learning all the time. Only problem is that Oz might have to bowl him into the ground

As a batsman, he's a good hitter and low 20s would be a bonus

But if Australia continues to use him like this, it will be only a matter of time before he injures himself.

And he does not have the accuracy expected out of a top class bowler if he wants to average in the mid 20s.

Unless he plays relatively weak teams like West Indies, Bangladesh and New Zealand more often, I don't see his bowling average ending up anywhere near as you suggested.

 

[susudear]

Aye

Not saying he will be as good as those guys, just that that is our best chance of producing a genuine allrounder - get a guy who can bowl and who has some rough talent with the bat, to work on his batting.

But CA must ensure he does not go the Irfan Pathan way. Concentrated on improving his batting so much that his bowling went to the dogs. And now it is neither here nor there.

 

[social]

But if Australia continues to use him like this, it will be only a matter of time before he injures himself.

And he does not have the accuracy expected out of a top class bowler if he wants to average in the mid 20s.

Unless he plays relatively weak teams like West Indies, Bangladesh and New Zealand more often, I don't see his bowling average ending up anywhere near as you suggested.

You ever see Steyn bowl?

He is no more accurate than Johnson

The big difference is that he gets to rest because of the makeup of the SA attack

Every team needs 5 capable bowlers as it's only sides with greats in their attacks like 80s Windies and recent Oz that have gooten away with 4 bowlers in the history of the game

Australia DESPERATELY need a fit Clark (something they havent had for nearly 12 months), a reliable spinner and a fit Watson or Symonds (neither of which is likely to happen in the near term) to take the pressure off Siddle and Johnson

The latter 2 then run in and bowl at mid 140s for short spells rather than attempt to sustain it for over after over after over because everyone else is going the distance

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I wouldn't quite give up on Watson yet. He was after all in the best form of his career with the ball before his most recent injury, and could be fit for the Ashes with a couple of months of FC cricket as a batsman under his belt.

If he's making runs for Queensland there's no reason he won't go on that tour, and if he gets a game there and performs in what should be much better conditions for him than in India, he's in.

 

[IndGunner]

You ever see Steyn bowl?

He is no more accurate than Johnson

The big difference is that he gets to rest because of the makeup of the SA attack

Every team needs 5 capable bowlers as it's only sides with greats in their attacks like 80s Windies and recent Oz that have gooten away with 4 bowlers in the history of the game

Australia DESPERATELY need a fit Clark (something they havent had for nearly 12 months), a reliable spinner and a fit Watson or Symonds (neither of which is likely to happen in the near term) to take the pressure off Siddle and Johnson

The latter 2 then run in and bowl at mid 140s for short spells rather than attempt to sustain it for over after over after over because everyone else is going the distance

Clark not fit for 12months? wow then he bowls pretty nicely even whens hes not fit.. id say maybe four months? and even in india when they dropped him for the second test there was no reports of injury or all that. How would you define " unfit"?

 

[susudear]

Hahaha

You ever see Steyn bowl?

He is no more accurate than Johnson

Steyn is >>>>>>>>>> Johnson that there should not be any comparison.

Johnson's stock ball to the right hander is 2 feet outside the off stump. His moment of reckoning will come when they stop chasing such balls.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Clark not fit for 12months? wow then he bowls pretty nicely even whens hes not fit.. id say maybe four months? and even in india when they dropped him for the second test there was no reports of injury or all that. How would you define " unfit"?

Elbow injury which required surgery would fall under "unfit". Still hasn't been 12 months, but there's no way Clark was fully fit during the India tour.

He was left out due to injury in the second test BTW. The official line was "elbow soreness which troubled him during the first test" or something along those lines. It was the 4th test he was "dropped" for.

 

[IndGunner]

Elbow injury which required surgery would fall under "unfit". Still hasn't been 12 months, but there's no way Clark was fully fit during the India tour.

He was left out due to injury in the second test BTW. The official line was "elbow soreness which troubled him during the first test" or something along those lines. It was the 4th test he was "dropped" for.

Oh my bad

 

[IndGunner]

Aust bottom 4 added 120+ today as well. Whats going y cant either time bowl the tail out? ( barring the johnson master class in perth)

 

[social]

Steyn is >>>>>>>>>> Johnson that there should not be any comparison.

Johnson's stock ball to the right hander is 2 feet outside the off stump. His moment of reckoning will come when they stop chasing such balls.

Oh dear, another one that just doesnt get it

Firstly, Johnson is (aside from Tait) consistently the quickest bowler in the world. That, in itself, is enough to cause any batsman discomfort as they only have a fraction of a second to make up their minds to play

Secondly, he's left handed and his natural ball is a leg-cutter to the right-hander

Thirdly, that combination is INCREDIBLY rare and so batsmen are just not used to it

Fourthly, when Johnson lures someone into playing a poor shot, it's Johnson who is crap yet when Steyn gets wickets with near wides, he's good despite the fact he's slower and righthanded (i.e. nothing that people havent seen before)

 

[social]

Aust bottom 4 added 120+ today as well. Whats going y cant either time bowl the tail out? ( barring the johnson master class in perth)

Both attacks are average and the wickets are good

 

[susudear]

How

Oh dear, another one that just doesnt get it

Firstly, Johnson is (aside from Tait) consistently the quickest bowler in the world. That, in itself, is enough to cause any batsman discomfort as they only have a fraction of a second to make up their minds to play

Secondly, he's left handed and his natural ball is a leg-cutter to the right-hander

Thirdly, that combination is INCREDIBLY rare and so batsmen are just not used to it

Fourthly, when Johnson lures someone into playing a poor shot, it's Johnson who is crap yet when Steyn gets wickets with near wides, he's good despite the fact he's slower and righthanded (i.e. nothing that people havent seen before)

How then can you explain the average differential of over 8 points? Not to mention Steyn's success everywhere except perhaps England?