***Official*** South Africa In Australia

[Craig]

I guess that shows how good Warne was, able to keep it tight and get wickets.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah, but tossing it up over and over with no variation and getting hammered doesn't help things a lot either.

No doubt you need a spinner to have attacking intent, but a healthy balance between what Krezja brings and a Giles-esque "defence at all costs" mentality would be nice. Warne wasn't just an attacking bowler, he was also capable of bowling defensively when it was needed, like all great spinners. Krezja's not going to have a successful career if he's always going at 5 an over, simple as that.

But yes, you shouldn't pick a bowler with the sole intent of keeping it tight.

 

[Chimpdaddy]

I guess that shows how good Warne was, able to keep it tight and get wickets.

If you take wickets, your economy will improve. Warne always managed to have batters questioning themselves: Should I charge, should I stay back, should I sweep, block, fend away with the pad, which way is it going to turn? This doubt works great for a spin bowler. Batters who begin questioning themselves, have much more trouble and are unlikely to tonk you. The sheer variation Warne was able to create with his accuracy meant he was able to throw it up, and not worry too much about getting tonked every ball. He also had support from the captain when he did get hit, to stick with him.

-Chimpdaddy-

 

[Chimpdaddy]

Yeah, but tossing it up over and over with no variation and getting hammered doesn't help things a lot either.

No doubt you need a spinner to have attacking intent, but a healthy balance between what Krezja brings and a Giles-esque "defence at all costs" mentality would be nice. Warne wasn't just an attacking bowler, he was also capable of bowling defensively when it was needed, like all great spinners. Krezja's not going to have a successful career if he's always going at 5 an over, simple as that.

But yes, you shouldn't pick a bowler with the sole intent of keeping it tight.

I'm certainly not advocating tossing it up with no variation. Variation is crucial and made Warne an extreme threat. If you're getting tonked every ball when tossing it up, clearly your doing something wrong, and shouldn't be competing at international level. But nothing irritates me more seeing a spin bowler fire 4 - 5 balls of an over, darting them in a the stumps at 95kph+ with no variation. The batter might not hit you for 4, but you are unlikely to get any wickets. The spinner needs the support of the captain, to know that even if he does get tonked for a couple of balls, the captain is not going to immediately take him off. With wickets, come doubt by batters, and an improved economy.

-Chimpdaddy-

 

[Rant0r]

Siddle has a Nice 4 ball every over, this is not good enough at Test level.

this attitude is typical of a generation spoiled by mcgrath, just let the boy bowl

Not saying that this applies to you personally, but I think there is this mentality still floating around that we shouldn't accept anything less than an elite spinner because we must be able to turn one of these Krejza/Hauritz types into one. Australia's position regarding test spinners is unusual in that the spinners we are trying really aren't much more effective than the part time options we already have in Clarke and Katich. If you were to throw North in there, obviously as a batsman first and foremost, you then have three guys who can bowl three different varieties of spin and are almost as accomplished at it as anybody else we have. Importantly, that allows you to play your best paceman, someone like Noffke when he's fit again.

good idea, although the part timers haven't really stepped up as much when asked to bowl more than partnership breakers, i thought clarke was a bit of a gun, but he did nothing really of note in india, maybe this is why

This is exactely what is wrong with the Australian view on creating quality spinners. The entire "keep it tight" mentality. Shane Warne said that a great spinner can throw it up, get tonked for 6, and then throw it up again the very next ball. To a spinner, keep it tight = dart the ball in quick at the stumps. That is not the right attitude. In order to take wickets you need to try an decieve the batter in flight, dip and spin off the pitch. You can get it wrong, and the batter may charge down the pitch and tonk you, but there is always that element of danger that if he misreads the flight or mistimes the shot, he can get out.

Finally, "keeping things tight" don't win test matches, wickets do.

-Chimpdaddy-

warne was able to keep things tight by being attacking, after mcgrath knocked over a few, warne would come in and the batsmen **** themselves into blocking because he's shane warne, the match is tight, and they thought he was going to bowl 6 different deliveries per over.

truth is, warne could take a bag by bowling a legbreak every delivery, it's his more subtle variations that did the job, something a lot of young spinners can learn from

 

[howardj]

Ideal team for this dead Test would be:

Hughes
Katich
God
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin
Henriques
Johnson
Hauritz
Bollinger
Hilfenhaus

But yeah, I like to consider myself a visionary.

 

[Craig]

What has Henriques done to get a Test cap? That is more left field then McDonald's call-up.

 

[Rant0r]

henriques ? you been sniffing paint bro ?

 

[Mr Casson]

Ideal team for this dead Test would be:

Hughes
Katich
God
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin
Henriques
Johnson
Hauritz
Bollinger
Hilfenhaus

But yeah, I like to consider myself a visionary.

Look, as much as I'd love to play a test, I've got **** to do on the weekend, and seeing as the nature of my job is such that everyone will be watching me, I don't think I'll be able to explain why I was absent. Can play in the T20Is if you like though.

 

[Rant0r]

i seriously think if the **** really hit the fan, and someone high up at CA said 'warney, here's the captaincy' he would come out of retirement. might need to sweeten the deal with some hookers, a craps table in the changeroom, unlimited fags and hamburgers though

 

[Andy_P]

Five specialist bowlers..

Would like both Hilfenhaus and Bollinger to play tomorrow.

Very much agree with this piece.

I agree with this for the most part. I'd like to see us revert back to the traditional team balance and play 5 specialist bowlers. An all-rounder is an option if we have great bowlers like Warne & McGrath. Now that we don't, let's get back to the traditional plan and wait for the next great bowlers to come along to allow us the room for an all-rounder. Some might say, considering our batting woes this would be unwise, but the fact is we still have some of the greatest batsmen going around in the top/middle order, and it would be worth encouraging them to be less reckless with their wicket, if they know they have on less batsmen to rely upon....

So we should be playing Bollinger, Hilfenhaus, Johnson, Siddle and Krezja.

I haven't been overly impressed by Siddle, but there is definitely some potential there if he can find some consistency. Lee shouldn't have been picked for the second test i.m.o, nor for this test, so the injury has forced that anyway.

 

[Craig]

i seriously think if the **** really hit the fan, and someone high up at CA said 'warney, here's the captaincy' he would come out of retirement. might need to sweeten the deal with some hookers, a craps table in the changeroom, unlimited fags and hamburgers though

Look I know he has a rep for being a player, but I didn't know he batted for both teams

 

[Rant0r]

haha, as funny as that would be..

 

[howardj]

I agree with this for the most part. I'd like to see us revert back to the traditional team balance and play 5 specialist bowlers. An all-rounder is an option if we have great bowlers like Warne & McGrath. Now that we don't, let's get back to the traditional plan and wait for the next great bowlers to come along to allow us the room for an all-rounder.

Mate, I don't think our traditional balance has really been five specialist bowlers though. Just on all-rounders, I think, as with BLee when he started out, a guy like Johnson is much more likely to be an allrounder than someone like North, Symonds or MacDonald who are really batsmen who can bowl. History shows, with guys like Akram, Dev, Imran, Pollock, Hadlee etc, that the best allrounders start out as gun bowlers and develop their batting. To this end, I think Johnson should really work on this aspect of his game.

I haven't been overly impressed by Siddle, but there is definitely some potential there if he can find some consistency.

I haven't been overly impressed either. He's definitely worth a spot on the forthcoming Test tours, but I think that both Bollinger and Hilfenhaus (guys who shape the ball) would be better picks in the actual XI at this stage.

 

[pup11]

2 months ago in Mohali lol

White and Siddle in India.

Haha, yeah forgot about that, i was thinking way back when Hodge and Warne played in the same XI 2-3 years ago.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Look I know he has a rep for being a player, but I didn't know he batted for both teams

If he does I doubt the other players would enjoy the 'craps table' being in full view.

 

[Andy_P]

History shows, with guys like Akram, Dev, Imran, Pollock, Hadlee etc, that the best allrounders start out as gun bowlers and develop their batting. To this end, I think Johnson should really work on this aspect of his game.

Very good point. The fact that we have someone like Johnson, and generally handy tail-enders, I would think is more reason to resist playing a "modern all-rounder?".

I haven't been overly impressed either. He's definitely worth a spot on the forthcoming Test tours, but I think that both Bollinger and Hilfenhaus (guys who shape the ball) would be better picks in the actual XI at this stage.

Absolutely, and of course there is Clark. Looking forward to the touring XI, unless Siddle does something special in Sydney, Clark would have to take his place (if he's fit). Although I could be jumping the gun, and might be worth seeing how Bollinger goes first....

 

[Johnners]

Watto

 

[susudear]

No Ponting?

Ideal team for this dead Test would be:

Hughes
Katich
God
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin
Henriques
Johnson
Hauritz
Bollinger
Hilfenhaus

But yeah, I like to consider myself a visionary.

And Tendulkar at No.3?

 

[susudear]

Nice.