Neil McKenzie's/Duminy's fate

[Jigga988]

Got the perfect solution. God, it's so good i can't believe i hadn't even thought of it yet.

Drop Boucher, give AB the gloves and stick Duminy+Prince in at 6 and 7.

Wishful thinking, SA will never drop Boucher no matter how pathetic he is playing.

Prince has to come in, in his last test match series against England he was an absolute joy to watch, he was gebuine class with the bat. Afraid Mcknezie will have to get dropped, such is the strength of this SA line up.

 

[Uppercut]

Wishful thinking, SA will never drop Boucher no matter how pathetic he is playing.

Prince has to come in, in his last test match series against England he was an absolute joy to watch, he was gebuine class with the bat. Afraid Mcknezie will have to get dropped, such is the strength of this SA line up.

Yeah i know. But it's exactly what they should do.

 

[Jigga988]

Yeah, probobly, how proven is Ab with the gloves??

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, probobly, how proven is Ab with the gloves??

Probably just as good as Boucher. But he might not have practiced in a while. Also they don't want to lose him in the field. Took three wickets at Perth without bowling a ball.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He played as the keeper twice during England's tour of SA in winter 04/05 - he is a perfectly serviceable gloveman, but the mental aspect of keeping and batting is something that has to be considered here. It is arguably beyond someone to keep wicket and bat top five successfully due to the sheer strain it puts on you. If AB was to take over with the gloves (and I think several of us expect that to happen post-Boucher), he would logically have to bat six or even seven.

 

[Uppercut]

He played as the keeper twice during England's tour of SA in winter 04/05 - he is a perfectly serviceable gloveman, but the mental aspect of keeping and batting is something that has to be considered here. It is arguably beyond someone to keep wicket and bat top five successfully due to the sheer strain it puts on you. If AB was to take over with the gloves (and I think several of us expect that to happen post-Boucher), he would logically have to bat six or even seven.

Didn't Andy Flower do it?

I agree anyway. It doesn't make a great deal of difference though, Prince can bat 5, Duminy can bat 6. It's better than trying to forge one of them into a makeshift opener IMO.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Didn't Andy Flower do it?

Yeah - the man was a legend. Even so, a breakdown of his runs by batting position still holds the message:
3 16.20
4 27.57
5 54.89
6 58.40
7 70.00

I would hazard that without the gloves, he would have batted higher in the order.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah - the man was a legend. Even so, a breakdown of his runs by batting position still holds the message:
3 16.20
4 27.57
5 54.89
6 58.40
7 70.00

I would hazard that without the gloves, he would have batted higher in the order.

Certainly, i would like De Villiers batting at 6 or 7 when he does eventually take up the gloves. Always good to let the keeper put his feet up after spending a while in the field.

 

[Top_Cat]

Even with those numbers, I'd hazard that Flower had his best periods in the team when he wasn't 'keeper, though.

 

[Matt79]

No, strangely his stats when he wasn't keeping were very average, although that might have reflected a general fatigue of carrying a team on his shoulders.

But Flower was a freak - you need to come up with more than one example where it's worked (having a keeper in the top 5) before you can decide its sound policy. Ames is the only other one I can think of, and I think he batted 6 or 7 most of the time, without checking.

 

[Neil Pickup]

No, strangely his stats when he wasn't keeping were very average, although that might have reflected a general fatigue of carrying a team on his shoulders.

But Flower was a freak - you need to come up with more than one example where it's worked (having a keeper in the top 5) before you can decide its sound policy. Ames is the only other one I can think of, and I think he batted 6 or 7 most of the time, without checking.

Ames batted at five, six or seven in roughly equal measure.

 

[Top_Cat]

No, strangely his stats when he wasn't keeping were very average, although that might have reflected a general fatigue of carrying a team on his shoulders.

But Flower was a freak - you need to come up with more than one example where it's worked (having a keeper in the top 5) before you can decide its sound policy. Ames is the only other one I can think of, and I think he batted 6 or 7 most of the time, without checking.

Yeah but Flower wasn't much of a Test 'keeper, though. Kudos to him for even being serviceable whilst being his team's only bat (and for a little while, approached 'solid') but in most Test sides, there's no way he'd have made the team on 'keeping alone.

Or maybe I'm just bitter because he contributed the grand total of 1 50+ score for SA in an entire season, bookended by blockbuster county seasons.

 

[Corbin]

The only way both Prince and Duminy can both play is if De Villiers's role is changed for the 97th time and he's pushed up to the top order again (or for a real bolter, is given the wicket keeping gloves again) but I can see why the selectors would be very reluctant to do that.

Amla opening with Kallis batting three simply just won't happen for mine, nor do I think it's a particularly good idea. I suppose Duminy could push up the order and either open or bat three with Amla opening, but that doesn't really sit right with me either.

I really think dropping McKenzie would be a knee-jerk: he's done really well since coming into the team as an opener and to drop him based on three poor innings on his part and two (admittedly superlative) innings from Duminy would defy the general way selection is supposed to work. There is always the temptation to throw selectorial process out the window and go on tour form but it should typically be resisted.

You couldn't possibly defy Duminy a place after that innings though could you? Why change a winning forumla I say! Prince averages 30.33 against Australia in 9 Tests, just because your the vice-captain shouldn't mean you are a guaranteed selection.

Either way I find it hard to believe that South Africa would want to disrupt a positive top 4 so far in the series by replacing McKenzie who like you said had done really well coming into the side as an opener. If you look at McKenzie's averages he has generally played well on spinning wickets as well (notably India).

Hence I'm also interested to see what the SCG pitch looks like despite myself probably being possibly the biggest anti-fan of Robin Peterson who is just a joke of a spinner...

 

[silentstriker]

JP deserves his place. The fantastic thing is that they didnt rush him. One of the few occassions Cricket SA has brought a player (especially a PDA player) along correctly, allowing him to mature.

Nothing to contribute here, but what does PDA mean?

 

[Bees]

SS, I'm not certain but I'm quite confident it means previously disadvantaged.

 

[susudear]

Bad Idea

Got the perfect solution. God, it's so good i can't believe i hadn't even thought of it yet.

Drop Boucher, give AB the gloves and stick Duminy+Prince in at 6 and 7.

Abe cannot add much value than Boucher while keeping. He is best fielding in the slips, or point. Also the extra effort for keeping can affect his batting.

Best option is to continue with the existing squad.

 

[Prince EWS]

Got the perfect solution. God, it's so good i can't believe i hadn't even thought of it yet.

Drop Boucher, give AB the gloves and stick Duminy+Prince in at 6 and 7.

I suggested that earlier in the thread to be fair to myself.

 

[silentstriker]

SS, I'm not certain but I'm quite confident it means previously disadvantaged.

Is he considered 'coloured'? What is his ethnicity?

 

[Bees]

I'm fairly sure he is. He's certainly not white, and whenever the commentators talk about how quality players are coming through in the quota system, they reference him - along with Amla and Prince.

 

[sanga1337]

You couldn't possibly defy Duminy a place after that innings though could you? Why change a winning forumla I say! Prince averages 30.33 against Australia in 9 Tests, just because your the vice-captain shouldn't mean you are a guaranteed selection.

Either way I find it hard to believe that South Africa would want to disrupt a positive top 4 so far in the series by replacing McKenzie who like you said had done really well coming into the side as an opener. If you look at McKenzie's averages he has generally played well on spinning wickets as well (notably India).

Hence I'm also interested to see what the SCG pitch looks like despite myself probably being possibly the biggest anti-fan of Robin Peterson who is just a joke of a spinner...

I think you'll find the main reason for this is because he had absolutely no clue on how to play Warne. He's got out like 10 times against him. With Warne out of the team he should be fine IMO.