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***Official England in India***

GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Uppercut said:
Was a pretty good ball i thought. Drew the cut stroke and nipped back in off the seam. Perfect delivery to bowl to Sehwag.

As for Gambhir, to the letter of the law he probably should be given the benefit of the doubt, but i don't think batsmen should be when they pad up to balls just outside off with the bat nowhere near. Major brain-fart from him.

Dravid was very unlucky, but he would've gone soon enough anyway. Can not believe he's still being picked. Tendulkar and Laxman looked set, then played a poor shot. Yuvraj just isn't a test-match batsman.

If England were to win this series (unthinkable for me at the start of the series if i'm honest), would India still be most people's number two team? I'd have had SA ahead of them before this series anyway, but that was a bit of a minority opinion. On their day they're as good as anyone, but they need a big comeback here to prove they've got any semblance of consistency about them.
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Completely unrelated to the thread at hand, but what is your opinion on Axl Rose? :ph34r:
 
JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
andruid said:
India have not lived up to their billing as the greatest players of spin lately. Specialist spinners ie Mendis, Murali, Krezja have been able to get wickets and it looks like something along those lines with Monty and Swann getting stuck in already. Thought?
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I think one factor may be that the Indian batsmen seem to assume that just because they are Indian they can smash the spinners around (this is especially the case with second and third tier spinners like Panesar, Kreja, and Swann). One constant factor is the Indian batsmen seem to be going after the spinners and trying to hit them out of the attack, and in doing so, giving up their wickets. Its the opposite approach to when they play spinners like Warne and Murali where they play the bowler and ball on its merit and mix attack and defence, skill and strategy. Hence Warne and Murali are usually taken for singles and twos with occassional boundaries or more as they weary, as opposed to the lesser spinners where they attempt to smash them out of the attack from the get go, and get out in the process.

Edit/ Woodster has already suggested as much.

Murali is one of the best spinners in history (and in any case took out mostly tailenders after Mendis had wiped-out the top-order in the series in question).
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Also, Richard. Murali did not take most of his wickets from tail-enders in his match winning spells in the recent series against India. In the first test, of his 11 wickets, 9 were batsmen 1-7. If we look, however, at his more ordinary subsequent spells things are more even, in the second test, of his 5 wickets, 3 were batsmen 1 - 7; and in the third test, of his 5 wickets, 2 were batsmen 1 - 7. But in total, of 21 wickets in the series, 14 were batsmen 1 - 7.

In fact, since Murali started to become the bowler he would become in 1998 (I think he has been in something of a decline since the England tour of 2006, although still formidable) his overall record against India in that time is very good.

Code: 
v India 2001-2008 9 17 497.0 97 1407 60 8/87 11/110 23.45 2.83 49.7 5 2  

 
in India 2005-2005 3 5 158.4 28 496 16 7/100 8/218 31.00 3.12 59.5 1 0  
in Sri Lanka 2001-2008 6 12 338.2 69 911 44 8/87 11/110 20.70 2.69 46.1 4 2
 
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Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
JBH001 said:
Also, Richard. Murali did not take most of his wickets from tail-enders in his match winning spells in the recent series against India. In the first test, of his 11 wickets, 9 were batsmen 1-7. If we look, however, at his more ordinary subsequent spells things are more even, in the second test, of his 5 wickets, 3 were batsmen 1 - 7; and in the third test, of his 5 wickets, 2 were batsmen 1 - 7. But in total, of 21 wickets in the series, 14 were batsmen 1 - 7.
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I see, well I'd not actually looked at the exact figures, just gone off rough memory and a few posts on the matter about Murali a few weeks back. However, just looking at it, there were 11 out of 21 wickets of what I'd call serious batsmen (including Gambhir, which might be generous). This is by no means shocking, but also not outstanding. He also dismissed Dinesh Karthik 3 times, and Karthik of course has completely lost it of late.

All-in-all, though, I think it's fair to say simply that he did brilliantly in 1 Test and very moderately in the other 2.
In fact, since Murali started to become the bowler he would become in 1998 (I think he has been in something of a decline since the England tour of 2006, although still formidable) his overall record against India in that time is very good.
Code: 
v India 2001-2008 9 17 497.0 97 1407 60 8/87 11/110 23.45 2.83 49.7 5 2  

in India 2005-2005 3 5 158.4 28 496 16 7/100 8/218 31.00 3.12 59.5 1 0  
in Sri Lanka 2001-2008 6 12 338.2 69 911 44 8/87 11/110 20.70 2.69 46.1 4 2
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However, I've never once suggested Murali couldn't bowl against India. Like with Warne, I think the suggestion that the batsmen can be too good for the bowler (even if the bowler is a spinner) is an absurd one.

At the time Murali, and Warne, have bowled well (as well as they've bowled against others at the time they've been doing well against others), their records against India were more than acceptable.
 
JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
Whatever Karthick's relative abilities, he certainly is not a tail-ender. Moreover, iirc, of the 7 wickets of batsmean 8 - 11, I think 4 accounted for Kumble and Harbhajan both of whom can be thorns in the side of bowling attacks (with a test hundred and fifites respectively). Also, Gambhir is a good and heavily under-rated player of spin. Tbh, I am not all that fussed about this, I am simply pointing out that Murali's wickets in that series were not because Mendis got rid of the top order or anything close; in fact, Murali's major and most devastating spells in the 1st test involved almost totally demolishing the Indian top/middle order.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, as I say - pretty safe to say it's pretty simple: the First Test saw Murali wipe-out the top-order and Mendis knock-over the tail. The Second and Third Tests saw things go the other way around.
 
Uppercut

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
GeraintIsMyHero said:
Completely unrelated to the thread at hand, but what is your opinion on Axl Rose? :ph34r:
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Pahaha, out of the blue. Musically i like Guns'n'Roses (although Sweet Child o' Mine annoys the hell out me), they're a good, listenable rock band. They're one of those bands that i never listen to anymore, but when they come on somewhere else i'm like "aw great song, haven't heard this in ages." They also have the quite incredible feat of being the only people ever to cover Dylan and do it better than the original.

Not a fan of Axl as a person. Think he almost tries properly hard to be a cliché. He is better than Billy Corgan of the Greatest Band of All Time though, so that's okay.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
Too early for the Poms and the Indians aren't exactly on top.

Since this partnership scored like 10 runs England are once again no longer TAB favorites, crazy crazy stuff.
 
fredfertang

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ishant Sharma doesn't look to me like someone who should be compared to Chris Martin - makes Dhoni's rush of blood to the head look even sillier
 
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