***Official West Indies in New Zealand***

[NZTailender]

Interesting stat - in matches between the two, WI have won 10 and NZ 9, with 16 draws.

Since we last played them? That's quite interesting - especially when you consider we've played Bangladesh for 3 of those wins.

 

[Flem274*]

Fulton and Flynn should not open. I believe that Fulton is one of the best middle order batsmen in the country for a start, and he's horribly out of nick. If he opened atm, he'd go the way of Sinclair, Vincent and Marshall.

Flynn, despite being the lovable classic kiwi battler, is a poor batsman who seems to choke after getting a start despite batting in the comfortable possie of six and imo needs more FC cricket.

Aaron Redmond cannot score runs outside of flat decks, drops catches and is just not a test player atm. He's had one season of FC cricket opening and considering that he's done well to do what he has so far, but he's not NZ rep material atm.

Jamie How is in the middle of a form slump after a promising start. Personally I think the spinning pitches of the subcontinent have depleted his confidence (along with the pressure of being the lone resistor in the top 3 in England), and then a hard tour to Australia knocked him back further. I'd persist with him for the WI series and evaluate afterwards.

Ryder I like, but he's not a number three.

Taylor is just fustrating and out of nick a bit, but he's at least still getting starts, so I guess thats OK.

Nothing wrong with the bowlers. O'Brien is a gun. Also some people (mainly radio callers) have been suggesting that Martin and O'Brien should be dropped because they can't bat. They shouldn't have to be batting and they should be judged on bowling only. I'm no Martin fan but if he's dropped because he can't bat then whoever makes that descision needs to be dropped themselves.

I'm not sure who I'd turn out for the first WI test, I suppose I'll just wait and make my call closer to the match. AFAIC its a must win.

On Andy Moles, I really hope he doesn't coach like his ND-biased radio comments before the England series. I know I'm sounding like a broken record but I hope we haven't just put a Leslie1 in charge of the side. Otherwise we'll be no better off than under Bracewell.

I think we can win this series, we are capable. But to do so we must get it together, the WI are not easybeats anymore, that title has fallen on us probably, but if we play like we have shown in patches for 5 days (i.e. repeat Hamilton 2008 vs England) then we can win quite well, but atm the West Indies are probably in better mental shape and have their team elements more clicked together.

 

[_Ed_]

Since we last played them? That's quite interesting - especially when you consider we've played Bangladesh for 3 of those wins.

No that's the head-to-head NZ v WI record. Sorry, wasn't very clear.

 

[NZTailender]

No that's the head-to-head NZ v WI record. Sorry, wasn't very clear.

Yeah, just looked it up. But yeah, interesting head to head comparison.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't really think Flynn and Redmond are the best options as such, but they should be shown some faith - Redmond is particular given he looked better than he ever had before in the most recent Test match. Really, if Redmond is to be dropped at any point it should be for good - he shouldn't figure in discussions for a possible recall - and if he was dropped now, that wouldn't be the case, so he should be persisted with for the time being IMO.

Flynn's younger and could actually benefit quite a bit from a longer stint back in domestic cricket.. he looks technically very sound but he needs to realise that he needs to post big scores to actually make an impact at Test level. Similar criticisms can be levelled at How. All in all though, I'd probably show some faith in the batting lineup - I know I've made several posts pointing out how it's quite poor, but chopping and changing constantly isn't going to make it any better so some faith in the players into the series against the West Indies is required here, particularly with a new coach at the helm.

Southee shouldn't play IMO. Whether it be Mills or Franklin to come in for him, he should be dropped. He's obviously an immensely talented bowler but I think we've all seen that he struggles beyond his first spell and simply doesn't have the experience or temperament to be a consistently threatening Test bowler. It'd be a different case if New Zealand were scraping the barrel for quicks, but Mills and Franklin are both good Test bowlers so there's no need to play someone like Southee now.

That leaves:

1. How
2. Redmond
3. Fulton
4. Taylor
5. Ryder
6. Flynn
7. McCullum
8. Vettori
9. Franklin/Mills
10. O'Brien
11. Martin

 

[Precambrian]

Looking forward to this. Should be mighty interesting. I think NZ will wrap this.

 

[Natman20]

my line up:

Redmond
How
Taylor
McCullum
Ryder
Fulton
Oram
Vettori
Mills
O'Brien
Martin

my ODI line-up:

McCullum
Ryder
How
Taylor
Styris
Guptil
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Southee
Martin

 

[S.P. Fleming]

if we dont score 300+ in each of our first innings against an unthreatening attack then I am going to take a 2 year break from follwing the blackcaps until we learn to have some guts.

 

[Flem274*]

if we dont score 300+ in each of our first innings against an unthreatening attack then I am going to take a 2 year break from follwing the blackcaps until we learn to have some guts.

Good. Go and be miserable somewhere else. As for "learning to have some guts", do you want to pick up a bat and go face Brett Lee? Now look, I know I'm being nasty and I've said what you just did many a time before I learnt better, but I've just listened to the worst talkback host in NZ after a loss (Doug Golightly) declaring the doom of cricket and people talking the way you just did hacks me off mightily. I assume you play/played some sport at some level, and you know that when things aren't going right its so god damn tough you just want to chuck it all in? Did you get deserted for simply being out of touch, or did you get unflinching support? Critisicm (sic) is fine, they thouroughly deserve it and I'm always one for straight up opinion, positive or negative. But the whole whingy sideline "If dey dnt paly wit gutz den I hatez them 4eva" just really gets my goat. Everyone whose played sport has been down in the doldrums, I am atm, and being told to "show some guts and get on with it" does diddly squat, if you're in a bad mental state it just ****s you up even more and sets you back, not helps you go forward.

Now you're a good poster, but please don't sound like the average talkback caller garbage chucker, who is all talk and no walk.

 

[Athlai]

Top rant Phlegm. Now get to supporting domestic cricket.

 

[TT Boy]

if we dont score 300+ in each of our first innings against an unthreatening attack then I am going to take a 2 year break from follwing the blackcaps until we learn to have some guts.

Windies have a 'decent-ish' attack for mine. Jerome Taylor is a star and he should trouble the New Zealanders. Hoping Lionel Baker gets a gig.

 

[Flem274*]

A bit more nervous about Fidel Edwards really. Gave us hell last time iirc.

The thing I remember most about the last WI tour was the new nickname for Styris after he said something or other in the media and the WI called him Sweet and Sour Chicken.

Wish we still had the chook, though his form is a bit sour atm (god thats corny).

 

[S.P. Fleming]

Good. Go and be miserable somewhere else. As for "learning to have some guts", do you want to pick up a bat and go face Brett Lee? Now look, I know I'm being nasty and I've said what you just did many a time before I learnt better, but I've just listened to the worst talkback host in NZ after a loss (Doug Golightly) declaring the doom of cricket and people talking the way you just did hacks me off mightily. I assume you play/played some sport at some level, and you know that when things aren't going right its so god damn tough you just want to chuck it all in? Did you get deserted for simply being out of touch, or did you get unflinching support? Critisicm (sic) is fine, they thouroughly deserve it and I'm always one for straight up opinion, positive or negative. But the whole whingy sideline "If dey dnt paly wit gutz den I hatez them 4eva" just really gets my goat. Everyone whose played sport has been down in the doldrums, I am atm, and being told to "show some guts and get on with it" does diddly squat, if you're in a bad mental state it just ****s you up even more and sets you back, not helps you go forward.

Now you're a good poster, but please don't sound like the average talkback caller garbage chucker, who is all talk and no walk.

yea some fair points made there but I am just getting frustrated at how they seem to collapse in almost every test, often surrendering dominant positions (old trafford, GABBA). Yet almost every kiwi poster on here including myself seems to talk up how much potential some of these guys have. So does this potential really exist? or are New Zealand just not up to the demands of test match cricket. But you surely have to think that they didnt possess the ticker required today, on a pitch where Australia cruised to over 500. Look at some of the ways they got out aswell: Redmond, Ryder, Taylor, Fulton are examples.I just really hope some fresh thinking from Andy Moles might instill a new mental state in the team. I really do believe some of these guys are immensely talented which is why I got so frustrated I guess because I know they can do better.

 

[Athlai]

Expecting Taylor and Edwards both to do well and no one else from the Windies from the bowlers.

 

[sanga1337]

Would expect Chanderpaul to have a good series

 

[S.P. Fleming]

Expecting Taylor and Edwards both to do well and no one else from the Windies.

yea they both should do ok, I am expecting a low scoring series with both matches going well less than the full 5 days. I think the kiwi bowlers should have things good over the WI batsmen but I wouldnt expect to much from a tirelessly trying kiwi top order. It should be a good series to watch.

 

[Flem274*]

yea some fair points made there but I am just getting frustrated at how they seem to collapse in almost every test, often surrendering dominant positions (old trafford, GABBA). Yet almost every kiwi poster on here including myself seems to talk up how much potential some of these guys have. So does this potential really exist? or are New Zealand just not up to the demands of test match cricket. But you surely have to think that they didnt possess the ticker required today, on a pitch where Australia cruised to over 500. Look at some of the ways they got out aswell: Redmond, Ryder, Taylor, Fulton are examples.I just really hope some fresh thinking from Andy Moles might instill a new mental state in the team. I really do believe some of these guys are immensely talented which is why I got so frustrated I guess because I know they can do better.

Yeah I feel your pain. Atm they're just not thinking, they're off in la la land. My suspicions (as this applies to me when I'm riding, which is hugely mental like cricket) are it could be one of or a combo of a few things:

A) Poor preparation

B) They're too relaxed and confident (sounds mad, but its easy to be half asleep)

C) Getting through a tough spell of hard work and thinking "phew" and letting their concentration slip

D) Overanalysis and losing sight of the big picture

E) Setting concrete plans. Instead of taking what the game throws at them they're setting concrete plans of what they're going to do before the game.

Now I could be very wideo f the mark, perhaps they just don't have the talent, or perhaps there is some master plan at work we're not aware of yet , but in my biased opinion I think I'm close to the mark.

To counteract the above, they need both time to learn where their bet mental space is and the advice of someone who has been there, done that (not some Australian who is constantly moaning that the Shefield Shield is better than State Championship on the radio, Mr O'Neill).

 

[S.P. Fleming]

Yeah I feel your pain. Atm they're just not thinking, they're off in la la land. My suspicions (as this applies to me when I'm riding, which is hugely mental like cricket) are it could be one of or a combo of a few things:

A) Poor preparation

B) They're too relaxed and confident (sounds mad, but its easy to be half asleep)

C) Getting through a tough spell of hard work and thinking "phew" and letting their concentration slip

D) Overanalysis and losing sight of the big picture

E) Setting concrete plans. Instead of taking what the game throws at them they're setting concrete plans of what they're going to do before the game.

Now I could be very wideo f the mark, perhaps they just don't have the talent, or perhaps there is some master plan at work we're not aware of yet , but in my biased opinion I think I'm close to the mark.

To counteract the above, they need both time to learn where their bet mental space is and the advice of someone who has been there, done that (not some Australian who is constantly moaning that the Shefield Shield is better than State Championship on the radio, Mr O'Neill).

yea some good thoughts there. As I said I really hope alot of those things are Bracewell related and they will go as he goes. Likewise I am really keen to see if Andy Moles can eradicate these issues.

I really like his background coming into the job as he was obviously a strong mental player who worked very hard for his runs without a lot of natural talent. If he can instill that mental state into players with heaps of natural ability (Taylor, Ryder) then we could be in for an exiting few years.

 

[NZTailender]

Gayle has traditionally done very well against us IIRC, averaging over 60. Couple that with our poor handling of genuine express bowling, Gayle+Chanders+Sarwan+Taylor+Edwards may all WI need to beat us.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I don't really think Flynn and Redmond are the best options as such, but they should be shown some faith - Redmond is particular given he looked better than he ever had before in the most recent Test match. Really, if Redmond is to be dropped at any point it should be for good - he shouldn't figure in discussions for a possible recall - and if he was dropped now, that wouldn't be the case, so he should be persisted with for the time being IMO.

Flynn's younger and could actually benefit quite a bit from a longer stint back in domestic cricket.. he looks technically very sound but he needs to realise that he needs to post big scores to actually make an impact at Test level. Similar criticisms can be levelled at How. All in all though, I'd probably show some faith in the batting lineup - I know I've made several posts pointing out how it's quite poor, but chopping and changing constantly isn't going to make it any better so some faith in the players into the series against the West Indies is required here, particularly with a new coach at the helm.

Southee shouldn't play IMO. Whether it be Mills or Franklin to come in for him, he should be dropped. He's obviously an immensely talented bowler but I think we've all seen that he struggles beyond his first spell and simply doesn't have the experience or temperament to be a consistently threatening Test bowler. It'd be a different case if New Zealand were scraping the barrel for quicks, but Mills and Franklin are both good Test bowlers so there's no need to play someone like Southee now.

That leaves:

1. How
2. Redmond
3. Fulton
4. Taylor
5. Ryder
6. Flynn
7. McCullum
8. Vettori
9. Franklin/Mills
10. O'Brien
11. Martin

Agree with everything except for the lack of Southee, so.....

1. How
2. Redmond
3. Fulton
4. Taylor
5. Ryder
6. Flynn
7. McCullum
8. Vettori
9. Franklin
10. Southee
11. O'Brien