*Official* English Football Season 2008-2009

[grecian]

The noxious little w*nker ain't a winger in my eyes either, at least not for the last few seasons. Plays up-front in a fluid three.

Terms like winger are probably anachronistic nowadays to be fair, I just call 'em forwards unless they play for Man U, then I just call them *****.

 

[Uppercut]

Convince me of what a conventional winger does. He does not score goals, he crosses the ball and scores goals. For this Ronaldo fails IMO. The fact that he does everything else and floats around the pitch like an artist means he defies logic as probably one of the players of the premiership. I admire him greatly for that.

Giggs and Beckham are without question perhaps also adding Kanchelskis and Ginola with a few notable exceptions like Mcmanaman the best the Premiership had to offer. They did their roles as 'wingers' IMPO,

Ronaldo's better than any of them really. Quite easily in fact. The players of his class during the 90s didn't generally come to the premiership.

Anyway, the point had nothing to do with Ronaldo being good, was more aimed at how thinking Vieira and Keane are easily the best premiership centre-midfielders had nothing to do with the generation thing.

 

[analyst]

While you seem open to disagree on a point where I never had a problem with. I merely stated I don't like generation comparisons. I prefer players judged individually at their peak, its a fair assesment, How can Gerrard at 28 be compared to the finished product Keane who retired or present day Viera. My point was, that the comparison should be more to how good they were from 20-28 etc. That is a fair argument, otherwise it is unfair and my bets would be while Gerrard has declined in his defensive capabilities in the last few seasons, he is still up there with them in terms of attacking pedigree atleast as a premiership Player.

Also I notice you completely ignored my point about me admiring Ronaldo and him transcending the defintiion of a traditional winger, I said if I was a manager and wanted a pure winger, he wouldn't be my choice, he hardly crosses the ball, he runs around the pitch. Brown and Neville run past him, the likes of Kanchelskis,Giggs, Mcmanaman and John Barnes, Beckham,Ginola etc never needed a wingback, they either put the ball in themselves or they ran past their player. A winger crosses the ball, thats his job, any striker would tell you that, its only recent that wingers score shed loads of goals.

As I said Ronaldo has changed the meaning of winger but he is not a winger because he floats around the pitch just like Messi/Ronaldinho etc.

 

[luffy]

Does anyone know of any live streams I can watch the Everton vs Spurs match tonight on?

 

[roseboy64]

Try live footy or myp2p. That's as blunt as I can be.

 

[duffer]

Or justintv.

 

[Craig]

Get cable TV FFS.

 

[BoyBrumby]

While you seem open to disagree on a point where I never had a problem with. I merely stated I don't like generation comparisons. I prefer players judged individually at their peak, its a fair assesment, How can Gerrard at 28 be compared to the finished product Keane who retired or present day Viera. My point was, that the comparison should be more to how good they were from 20-28 etc. That is a fair argument, otherwise it is unfair and my bets would be while Gerrard has declined in his defensive capabilities in the last few seasons, he is still up there with them in terms of attacking pedigree atleast as a premiership Player.

Also I notice you completely ignored my point about me admiring Ronaldo and him transcending the defintiion of a traditional winger, I said if I was a manager and wanted a pure winger, he wouldn't be my choice, he hardly crosses the ball, he runs around the pitch. Brown and Neville run past him, the likes of Kanchelskis,Giggs, Mcmanaman and John Barnes, Beckham,Ginola etc never needed a wingback, they either put the ball in themselves or they ran past their player. A winger crosses the ball, thats his job, any striker would tell you that, its only recent that wingers score shed loads of goals.

As I said Ronaldo has changed the meaning of winger but he is not a winger because he floats around the pitch just like Messi/Ronaldinho etc.

Not exclusively, until Ian Wright broke his record Arsenal's all-time leading scorer was Cliff Bastin, who played on the wing in our 30s wonderteam. & if we're talking about great Premiership wingers I'd have to chuck Overmars & Monsieur Dive himself, Robert Pires, into the mix too.

I do agree that the concept of the touchline-hugging winger is largely a thing of the past tho, yes. Players like Ronaldo are probably better described as wide-right attacking midfielders, but that hardly trips off the tongue so still get labelled as "wingers" for the sake of brevity as much as anything else.

 

[grecian]

Not exclusively, until Ian Wright broke his record Arsenal's all-time leading scorer was Cliff Bastin, who played on the wing in our 30s wonderteam. & if we're talking about great Premiership wingers I'd have to chuck Overmars & Monsieur Dive himself, Robert Pires, into the mix too.

I do agree that the concept of the touchline-hugging winger is largely a thing of the past tho, yes. Players like Ronaldo are probably better described as wide-right attacking midfielders, but that hardly trips off the tongue so still get labelled as "wingers" for the sake of brevity as much as anything else.

EDIT: was wrong there

There have been many goal-scoring out-and-out wingers in the past, Tom Finney, George Best amongst many others. As I said before though, the old style, not track-back hugging to the byline player doesn't exist anymore. Actually Nevin was one of the last to operate in top-class football (or for Chelsea, which wasn't the same back then). Of the players mentioned from Man U, Kanchelskis is closest, which is probably why Fergie sold him, Lee Sharpe was close too, got rid of likewise. Becks and Giggs were/are always defensively very responsible. Stanley Matthews never tracked back in his life and would of thought it impudent if he was asked too. It's also why Fergie has come up with the floating three, to find a way for Ronnie to operate without having to do defensive duties. It has, I have to admit grudgingly, an inspired move. Ronaldo was part genius, part liability on the wing in his early days. This way Rooney and Tevez do much of the ugly stuff, leaving Ronnie to float and cause havoc. Actually John Barnes did similar when he played for Liverpool.

 

[Tom Halsey]

AFAIC Ronaldo is every bit as much a winger as Best was (incidentally, Best scored a fair few too, so a winger who scores is not a novel concept), no-one had a problem calling Best a winger.

FWIW, IMO there are still a few genuine wingers around, but there's no denying that the days of every side playing with two genuine wingers are a thing of the past. Most of those termed wingers now would probably be better described as side midfielders, but as Brumby said it doesn't really trip off the tongue.

 

[GIMH]

Nevin, my hero. It was an honour watching him play for us in the early 90s. I think about the team we have now and then I think back to when we had Morrisey & Nevin on the wings, supplying Aldo - I wish I had savoured it, for I don't at all doubt thyat I will never again see such a brilliant Tranmere side.

Sorry for going on, but you mentioned Nevin

 

[grecian]

Nevin, my hero. It was an honour watching him play for us in the early 90s. I think about the team we have now and then I think back to when we had Morrisey & Nevin on the wings, supplying Aldo - I wish I had savoured it, for I don't at all doubt thyat I will never again see such a brilliant Tranmere side.

Sorry for going on, but you mentioned Nevin

yeah, he was a great player to watch, went missing often though.

c'mon Histon & Citeh.

Oh Gawd, Dunne's playing

 

[Jamee999]

LOL Leeds.

 

[grecian]

Leeds had never lost to a non-league team, interesting stat, now blissfully redundant

 

[fredfertang]

This is almost as good as when Colchester put Revie's arrogant lot out all those years ago

 

[BoyBrumby]

Pretty hard to justify Histon on any level, they play the sort of attractive route-one, dog plop non-football that any John Beck coached team tends to do, but Leeds losing is never less than hilarious.

& Histon actually play in Impington, while we're chucking random football factoids around.

 

[Johnners]

Massive lol at Ronaldo

 

[roseboy64]

Deserved win that.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Hilarious game. Never expected to win so no worries, but jeez what was Ronaldo thinking?

Disappointing effort from Hart for the goal though, should never have let it roll.

 

[roseboy64]

Did well on Rooney's last effort TBF.