***Official England in India***

[silentstriker]

do you find that anywhere nowadays?

Bounce? Yes. Bounce is most certainly higher in most places outside the subcontinent. The pitches are still unfortunately mostly flat though.

 

[Richard]

If Bell's not opening then there's really no place for him in the ODI side.

Quite possibly, yes. However, if I've the choice between him at three or one(\two), I'd take three.

 

[Richard]

Bounce? Yes. Bounce is most certainly higher in most places outside the subcontinent.

Even so, though, there's nowhere near as much of it as there might have been at some times. There's only ever been the odd ground where bounce in itself becomes a weapon (The WACA being the most concrete example) but good high bounce accentuates any bowler's weapons, as well as forcing him to keep a tight line as generally higher bounce and quicker pace - up to a certain point - means the ball slips onto and off the middle of the bat more easily.

There are quite a few grounds around various places - most notably of course Sabina Park and Kensington Oval in the Caribbean - where high (though not WACA-esque) bounce used to be almost a given and is at the current time unheard of.

Seam movement has been the most notably lacking thing in pitches of the last 7 years (though it's been a bit better the last couple than the 5 before that) but good high bounce too has been less prevalent than I'd like.

 

[quick4mindia]

Swann must play for the remainder of the series, based on my knowledge of Indian grounds except for Kanpur it think the remainder of the venues are pretty decent size venues.

So Swann shouldn't have the "achillies heel" of the Indian using the small ground advantage to hit him out of the attack.

I guess Kanpur ground is quite decent sized as well. May not have best of the facilities (now even not sure abt that because BCCI has pumped in money to improve infrastructure)
but the size of the ground was never small IMO

 

[aussie]

I guess Kanpur ground is quite decent sized as well. May not have best of the facilities (now even not sure abt that because BCCI has pumped in money to improve infrastructure)
but the size of the ground was never small IMO

Well i have a tape (has a some fungus now though) of an India/NZ test in 99 @ Kanpur and it looks kind of small.

Or did India build another ground in the city?

 

[Richard]

No, it was Green Park then and it's Green Park now.

Obviously it's not big compared to somewhere like Eden Gardens but from the ODI in 2001/02 I don't remember it being small, not the way Rajkot was.

 

[Richard]

Either way, good - hopefully - news for England is that Swann will play. Sidebottom won't, as he's injured again.

Disappointingly, however, Swann will replace Patel. I'd much have preferred to see him come in for Shah or even one of the seamers, but I suppose some good would come of Shah playing more and failing more.

This prospective side, though, will have five genuine front-line bowlers, which is always a good thing.

 

[Woodster]

Not too disgruntled about him replacing Patel. Don't think it was fair on Patel using him in the way England have. He is a top order that can bowl, and when selected, he should be picked with that in mind.

Like a specialist spinner in the side, with the advantage of him being able to bat a bit.

 

[Anil]

Bounce? Yes. Bounce is most certainly higher in most places outside the subcontinent. The pitches are still unfortunately mostly flat though.

and gambhir is a flat track bully right? so still right up his alley...

 

[FBU]

Well England are going to try Bell and Bopara opening. Now I wonder who will be run out first?

 

[Sanz]

Bounce? Yes. Bounce is most certainly higher in most places outside the subcontinent. The pitches are still unfortunately mostly flat though.

Sometimes I dont understand your motive for posting stuff like that, it just seems that you are deliberately posting nonsense.

 

[silentstriker]

Sometimes I dont understand your motive for posting stuff like that, it just seems that you are deliberately posting nonsense.

The pitches certainly have higher bounce in other places compared to the series we just had in India. There was a whole interview just recently with Haddin on how he now has to get used to standing six to seven paces behind what he did in India.

It is also true that despite the bounce, the pitches in the last five-six years have been high scoring. I am not sure where I am wrong?

 

[sirdj]

Everytime we are in the subcontinent the discussion is about how flat the pitches are. I don't see why Australian or English pitches are seen as the standard of bouncyness or pace? It is NOT a foregone conclusion that they are the best pitches for the game. Countries prepare pitches that suit their style of playing.
And then there are remarks such as "flat track bully" which is usually said to overlook someone's achievement. Why do we not do this the other way around - discount someone's achievement in England/Australia/S.A. if they cant seem to fathom spin when in the subcontinent???

 

[Sanz]

The pitches certainly have higher bounce in other places compared to the series we just had in India. There was a whole interview just recently with Haddin on how he now has to get used to standing six to seven paces behind what he did in India.

It is also true that despite the bounce, the pitches in the last five-six years have been high scoring. I am not sure where I am wrong?

No, I dont have an issue with that point, infact I agree with that. But the assumption that No Bounce=Flat or that subcontinent pitches are flat and hence Gambhir's scores were made on flat tracks and mean nothing is just too much assumption and taking the credit away from the batsman.

And If It were so easy to score on Indian Pitches, why only one Aussie had a 50+ average in the India-Aus series ?

 

[gettingbetter]

Well England are going to try Bell and Bopara opening. Now I wonder who will be run out first?

Where did you hear that? I think they used to open in u/19s, or that may of been Cook and Bopara.

 

[Turbinator]

So how much does England want to lose by today?

 

[IndGunner]

Eng to win this. They Bat first and score 250 - 270 India all out 190 with dhoni stranded on 65 with 9 overs left.

Just going out on a limb.

 

[R_D]

No, I dont have an issue with that point, infact I agree with that. But the assumption that No Bounce=Flat or that subcontinent pitches are flat and hence Gambhir's scores were made on flat tracks and mean nothing is just too much assumption and taking the credit away from the batsman.

And If It were so easy to score on Indian Pitches, why only one Aussie had a 50+ average in the India-Aus series ?

Agree with that.. its typical attitude of non-subcont fans.

 

[Richard]

Everytime we are in the subcontinent the discussion is about how flat the pitches are. I don't see why Australian or English pitches are seen as the standard of bouncyness or pace? It is NOT a foregone conclusion that they are the best pitches for the game. Countries prepare pitches that suit their style of playing.

Not neccessarily. Sometimes they're constrained by the limits of the ground in question. You can only manufacture so much.

It's hardly rocket-science that more bounce = more bounce and less bounce = less bounce. I don't think many people with a brain assume that the subcontinent is neccessarily more or less ball-friendly, because sometimes pitches in England are as flat as they get, sometimes pitches in Australia are as flat as they get, and sometimes pitches in the subcontinent are as flat as they get. However, bounce is bounce however seam or spin-friendly the pitch is.

Either way, game finally underway, Bopara to open the batting which is an odd decision regardless of what happens in this game, and Swann to play not instead of Patel but instead of Harmison, which is a good decision.

 

[Prince EWS]

Swann to play not instead of Patel but instead of Harmison, which is a good decision.

Well, it's a good decision in the sense that it's better that it was made than not made. Swann in for a batsman would have made far, far more sense though.