Ponting not a complete batsman - Harbhajan

[duffer]

Haha classy Bhajji!!! Well done!!

Ponting can never be called a complete batsman as he suckered in India. He has a point.

Yeah cheap shots in the media are heaps classy.

 

[Precambrian]

No need for a new thread, let's start another round of Ponting v Tendulkar right here right now

Ha ha,

(Wish this thread is closed asap)

 

[Precambrian]

Yeah cheap shots in the media are heaps classy.

He has done his dough and then is doing the talking right?

(Classy = jest)

 

[Ikki]

Depends how you define complete. His is as good as almost any in the world though. In any case, even if his average were 0 in the entire subcontinent, the weight of his runs elsewhere would make him a more complete player than Harbhajan. Non issue.

That's interesting. Then by what measure wouldn't he be complete? He plays spin almost as good as anyone and has smashed India at home. So is he not complete because Harbhajan gets him out?

 

[silentstriker]

That's interesting. Then by what measure wouldn't he be complete?

I don't know, off the top of my head, another all time great player being ineffective in a single country after playing so many matches there. All other all time greats have countries they do slightly worse in, but that's usually still at least 35. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know.

He plays spin almost as good as anyone and has smashed India at home.

Yea, he is generally good against spin, and absolutely amazing against pace.

So is he not complete because Harbhajan gets him out?

Nothing to do with it. Maybe in some people's mind. Not in mine though.

 

[silentstriker]

However, I do now consider him an all time great batsman. He didn't answer all his India questions, but he answered a couple. To me, that is enough. I don't know if I'd put him in the Aussie all time side yet, but now I think he is close, if not in already.

 

[Precambrian]

However, I do now consider him an all time great batsman. He didn't answer all his India questions, but he answered a couple. To me, that is enough. I don't know if I'd put him in the Aussie all time side yet, but now I think he is close, if not in already.

Yeah, everyone's got an achilles heel. Punter's plunder in Australia, SA and NZ are quite OK to be regarded as an all time Australian great. Though his poor performance in India will probably take a bit sheen from it, overall, it is gold.

 

[Burgey]

However, I do now consider him an all time great batsman. He didn't answer all his India questions, but he answered a couple. To me, that is enough. I don't know if I'd put him in the Aussie all time side yet, but now I think he is close, if not in already.

AWTA. He certainly belongs in the argument, anyways.

 

[Sanz]

Depends how you define complete. His is as good as almost any in the world though. In any case, even if his average were 0 in the entire subcontinent, the weight of his runs elsewhere would make him a more complete player than Harbhajan. Non issue.

So If Bhajji ends up taking 600 wickets, he will become a complete bowler ? Ponting is an all time great but let's not go overboard with some of the statements you have made in this thread about Bhajji's talent.

 

[Ikki]

I don't know, off the top of my head, another all time great player being ineffective in a single country after playing so many matches there. All other all time greats have countries they do slightly worse in, but that's usually still at least 35. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know.

Not only did Garry Sobers average 25 overall against NZ (12 matches) he averaged 15 (7 matches) away. Weekes averaged 25 in Australia.

I think the fact that both Sobers and Ponting do so much better everywhere else kinda disputes that they're not complete.

Yea, he is generally good against spin, and absolutely amazing against pace.

Actually, he is very good at it - one of the best His performances against Murali, Saqlain and Kumble (all 3 better than Harbi) attest to that.

Nothing to do with it. Maybe in some people's mind. Not in mine though.

I am not saying it is in your mind mate. I am just showing how pathetic it would be if that was the standard. And the fact that people stretch this record enough to deny him his dues is frankly shameful. His record in terms of different conditions/countries/types of bowling stands up with every batsman in history - bar, of course, Bradman. This cheapshot should be seen for what it is and whether Harbhajan has had considerable success is irrelevant. Especially considering this series Ponting has had the better of him.

 

[Ikki]

So If Bhajji ends up taking 600 wickets, he will become a complete bowler ? Ponting is an all time great but let's not go overboard with some of the statements you have made in this thread about Bhajji's talent.

Depends if he gets better when doing so. He is frankly not even worth consideration in an all-time context. Merely an average player/solid spinner.

 

[honestbharani]

Ponting has always been an all time great for me... I still think Lara and Sachin were better batsmen than him and I have my reasons, but that doesn't mean Ponting doesn't belong in the same bracket..


I have had him as an all time great even before this series began and even if he had scored 0 runs in this series, I would still have called him an all time great.


Form slumps, bad tours, places where you don't score can happen to any player. All time great is not about ticking boxes and criteria.. You watch a player stand up tall among contemporaries and you know he is an all time great. At least, that is my way of rating a guy...


And of course, how one is rated by contemporaries is an important point too.


P.S: Contemporaries apart from Harbhajan..




And on this thread, yeah, some statements about Bhajji's talents have been way OTT.. But he is still an idiot.. Seems to be taking anything and everything Ponting says in a negative way..



Not unlike some CWers, our Aussie posters here might like to add, I feel...

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Just what CW needs, another Ricky Ponting is/isn't an all-time great thread.

 

[sirdj]

I think this is part of the New Dhoni - Mental Disintegration campaign............players like Bhajji will continue boring their way into Ponting and other Aussie heads. They will take every opportunity to do so without saying something stupid like 'obnoxious weed'. Remember Zaheer took potshots at them after the first test.

 

[biased indian]

Oh, they can, Hayden has proved, Martyn has proved, Clarke proved his mettle in 2004, Chappell, a lot of guys have.

Punter? Puny avg of 20 in 12 matches.

--------------- End of story --------------- (No more feeding trolls)

when did Chappell and ponting play together

 

[Precambrian]

I think this is part of the New Dhoni - Mental Disintegration campaign............players like Bhajji will continue boring their way into Ponting and other Aussie heads. They will take every opportunity to do so without saying something stupid like 'obnoxious weed'. Remember Zaheer took potshots at them after the first test.

Heh, Yeah. And the best part is that they have performance to back them. Wonder when Ishant starts getting into Ponting, oh he did at getting Man of series, by saying Ponting's wicket gave him great satisfaction, but then that's more of a compliment.

 

[Precambrian]

when did Chappell and ponting play together

I thought the question was about all batsmen who played in India, rather than played alongwith Ponting.

 

[tooextracool]

That's interesting. Then by what measure wouldn't he be complete? He plays spin almost as good as anyone and has smashed India at home. So is he not complete because Harbhajan gets him out?

Ponting's record in India maybe an aberration, but to suggest that he plays spin as good as anyone is just denying the obvious. Sorry, I wouldnt even consider Ponting to be 'good' against spin. He has always been a mediocre player against spin and his lunges and general technique of playing spin with hard hands always makes him vulnerable to a quality spinner when there is something in the pitch to support it. I have no doubt that had Ponting been on the opposite side of Warne during his career he would have been struggling just as much as he does against Harbhajan.

People can point back to his success in SL in 1999, but that series is an aberration rather than the other way around.

 

[SJS]

Let Bhajji concentrate on becoming a complete bowler himself though time is running out on him I suspect.

 

[Ikki]

Ponting's record in India maybe an aberration, but to suggest that he plays spin as good as anyone is just denying the obvious. Sorry, I wouldnt even consider Ponting to be 'good' against spin. He has always been a mediocre player against spin and his lunges and general technique of playing spin with hard hands always makes him vulnerable to a quality spinner when there is something in the pitch to support it. I have no doubt that had Ponting been on the opposite side of Warne during his career he would have been struggling just as much as he does against Harbhajan.

People can point back to his success in SL in 1999, but that series is an aberration rather than the other way around.

With all due respect, whether you consider Ponting to be "good" vs spin is really not the argument. It's his successes against spin. And without a shadow of a doubt, he has been more than successful. Notice I did say "almost anyone". Whilst I wouldn't put him in the class of Andy Flower or Brian Lara, I would put him a clear notch below them.

In matches vs Murali he averages 57.
In matches vs Kumble he averages 60.
In matches vs Saqlain he averages 77.
In matches vs Vettori he averages 70.
In matches vs Kaneria he averages 100.

...these are some of the best spinners in Ponting's career. Indeed, even when Murali came here last time he said the main threat and best player of spin was Ponting.

Anyway, this is a digression to my point that no one would possibly call spin a weak-point for Ponting.