I don't regret this episode - Gambhir

[silentstriker]

I've offered the psych position that just imposing more legislation won't work, never does or only does for a short time until people figure out a way around it.

Again, you are using the same logic. Stealing will never go away, if you make a law, people will find ways to steal. Therefore, you shouldn't make a law against stealing.

You do the best you can, and you do your best to make it better as time goes on.

 

[Sanz]

But it wasn't a proportional response, was it? If he'd just sledged, it'd probably have been largely a non-issue. He changed things by getting physical. It's an understandable reaction but not justifiable, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

You and I do not define the proportional response, only Gambhir can decide what is an appropriate response. He got physical, true, but he didn't hurt Watson.

Ofcourse it is unacceptable but so is what was being said to him in the middle. Verbal abuse in the middle should be unacceptable too and those who indulge in such things should get suspension as well.

 

[Sanz]

Gambhir is as candid as one can get and IMO very fair :-

"No gentleman can hear things that Aussies were saying in Delhi. If what I did was wrong, then even sledging should be stopped, it has no place in the game, Aussies sledge from all corners, they sledged at me in Bangalore, Mohali and then in Delhi. I could have taken [their sledging] only to a point but they tend to get personal which is just not on.I agree that I shouldn't have crossed a certain line but people should take the holistic view rather than blaming just me for the episode, Frankly, I don't regret the Watson episode."

 

[social]

And for those who did not understand why the BCCI were behaving the way the were.......The Indians & the BCCI believe that the laws on conduct on the field are not fair....they allow certain kinds of behaviour but punish reaction to that behaviour............So they feel no need to stick to such unfair rules and will resort to coersion and blackmail.

News Flash - MANY members of the Indian team sledge ....



and whinge apparently

 

[NZTailender]

News Flash - MANY members of the Indian team sledge ....



and whinge apparently

Nah, don't buy that for a secod. Harby's going to be canonised after he passes away.

 

[Burgey]

Why wait?

 

[Top_Cat]

Again, you are using the same logic. Stealing will never go away, if you make a law, people will find ways to steal. Therefore, you shouldn't make a law against stealing.

You do the best you can, and you do your best to make it better as time goes on.

It's not the same logic because I'm not advocating zero legislation against sledging. Just that it's a highly individualised thing (i.e. context and who's being sledged make a difference) and should be treated as such, rather than blanket legislation. Like you said, umpires need to be given the power to make the determination and the legislative framework to sanction those who they deem to be crossing the line and the appeals process for grievences. Mandatory punishment based on arbitrarily-determined criteria in just about any legislative context you care to name has never worked for any length of time.

 

[Top_Cat]

You and I do not define the proportional response, only Gambhir can decide what is an appropriate response. He got physical, true, but he didn't hurt Watson.

That's tangential to the point, really. Stuff like this always starts off small. So he gave Watto a fairy tap, this is true. In a serious fight, Watto would be too strong so there's obviously no way he'd take him on. But you and I both know the escalations are always in small increments so the next hit won't be a fairy tap.

Anyway, the best and most disproportionate response to the whole thing would have been if he just maybe gave a bit of lip back and punished the Aussies on the scorecard, that latter of which he did. That would have hurt them a hell of a lot more.

 

[honestbharani]

Words are words. If you get physical with someone it's a totally different ballgame. The two are not remotely comparable in any sense, sorry. I understand people take sledging differently based on cultural background and other concerns, but there is never, under any circumstances, any justification for physically assaulting another player in a non-contact sport.

Same goes for anyone. You lay a hand on another player and you're pretty lucky if you get off with a one match ban.

if you are gonna talk ****, and **** abt people's family, then you should not really be surprised if someone comes back and kicks u in the nuts for it... You can't expect to talk **** in an office and not expect someone to get physical in retaliation, esp. when you are the one starting it out of nowhere........








Stupidest excuse for sledging I have ever heard...

 

[honestbharani]

Grow up Gambhir. Look at people around ya. If you have a problem with what they talk, report it to the umpires. See Sachin, he was sledged when he was a18 yr old, he replied with the bat, and they realised the more they sledged, the more he scored. And they stopped it by themselves.

I have seen Sachin walk when he nicked to the keeper (and he NEVER does that) and it seemed to be a reaction to the barrage of constant verbal abuse he was getting from the Saffies (Pollock and Kallis, in particular)......



I would think of it as an instance where the sledging worked.



And we still don't know what was said to Gambhir. If Watson was saying **** about Sachin's family to Sachin, he might have reacted the exact same way as Gambhir did too....




And I have seen Sachin sledge others for no reason on the cricket field too...... Not sure where your comparison is going, because every player has lost his cool at one time or the other. The issue here is whether a player has to put up with the sort of garbage that someone like Watson utters simply because he is not being physical????????



You know very well in Indian law that abusive language is almost as bad as physical abuse and a retaliatory physical offence can be pardoned.

 

[honestbharani]

But it wasn't a proportional response, was it? If he'd just sledged, it'd probably have been largely a non-issue. He changed things by getting physical. It's an understandable reaction but not justifiable, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

What Gambhir did was not justifiable but neither is what Watson did (IF he did say insulting personal garbage, obviously that is just speculation at this point...)...



My point here is, IF a bowler is sprouting out garbage about your family and you lay him out, then while you, as a batsman, get banned for a few games, the bowler, who initiated the abuse without any provocation, should get banned for a few games too.. Nip out both sides because both sides are guilty.. The levels may vary, obviously, but both parties need to get serious penalties.. Unlike one party just getting a slap on the wrist, as it was in this case.......

 

[honestbharani]

News Flash - MANY members of the Indian team sledge ....



and whinge apparently

And the Aussies dont??????????

 

[sirdj]

News Flash - MANY members of the Indian team sledge ....



and whinge apparently

Its the kind of swearing that I am talking about. if you don't get that then there isn't much to say.

As regards the whinging...............I would say that the Aussies did a whole lot more in this series.

 

[biased indian]

"But mommmmmy, they did it toooooo!"

ya gambhir going the symmonds way rite

 

[Precambrian]

I have seen Sachin walk when he nicked to the keeper (and he NEVER does that) and it seemed to be a reaction to the barrage of constant verbal abuse he was getting from the Saffies (Pollock and Kallis, in particular)......

I would think of it as an instance where the sledging worked.

Really? When? How'd you know Sachin was "mentally" disintegrated?

And we still don't know what was said to Gambhir. If Watson was saying **** about Sachin's family to Sachin, he might have reacted the exact same way as Gambhir did too....

Cool down man, Tendulkar has had 20 years of International cricket, and I am damn sure he'w have come across even worse sledging. But as I said, he didnt retaliate verbally or physically, but with his bat, which shut them up once and for all.

And I have seen Sachin sledge others for no reason on the cricket field too...... Not sure where your comparison is going, because every player has lost his cool at one time or the other. The issue here is whether a player has to put up with the sort of garbage that someone like Watson utters simply because he is not being physical????????

That's news. Because I've never heard of such a case. Accusing someone without even the slightest evidence is BS.

You may lose your cool at instances, but that's what umpires are there for, if you hear something really terrible, you report it, who will inturn report it to the match referee.

Take this example : A drunkard with a history of creating malice comes one day to you and start abusing you and your family and all that, would you go and "elbow" him? Or will you listen it and report to a policeman? Here the sledgers are even worse than the drunkard, because they have no excuse. So dont stoop to their level, and instead get the law working for you. That's why there are men paid and watching the match called as match referees.

You know very well in Indian law that abusive language is almost as bad as physical abuse and a retaliatory physical offence can be pardoned.

Not at all. Indian law has strict punishment structure. You get sworn at, you approach the law instead of taking it in your hands.

 

[Precambrian]

I am completely against any kind of sledging in the field. You get paid to play and show your prowess in that, and as Dhoni said,"If mouthing was the primary thing in the field, then i'd have got experts to do that instead of the players".

Excusing oneself saying that "Oh, sledging is in our culture" is bull****. It may be in your culture, but not in others. That has to be kept in mind. International cricket involves players from diverse areas and different cultures. And being totally compartmentalised is moronish.

And to the ones who support sledging by saying it's part of their culture, a simple question. Suppose you and your kids are playing a game, and you get bouncer, and the kid says, "**** you mother****er", Will you accept it as part of your culture? No? That's that. Hypocrisy.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Haha, I would. But I'd be a terrible father.

 

[honestbharani]

Really? When? How'd you know Sachin was "mentally" disintegrated?

Mumbai 2000.. He was captain and they were sledging him about not walking for an earlier nick. He nicked one down the leg side when on 97 and walked... Not saying he was "mentally" disintegrated.. That is a massive stretch. Just said it was an instance when the sledging might have worked even with someone like Sachin.. I am not blaming him.. Cool down...

Cool down man, Tendulkar has had 20 years of International cricket, and I am damn sure he'w have come across even worse sledging. But as I said, he didnt retaliate verbally or physically, but with his bat, which shut them up once and for all.

Again, we don't know what was said. Maybe it was indeed worse than anything he had heard.. I am just saying that just because Sachin handled it one way doesn't mean everyone has to do it in the same way... And just because it has worked for Sachin, it does not mean it is the best way to react. I have seen Lara have more success against sledging than anyone else in my time of watching cricket and he never took a backward step to the bowlers.. He always gave them back what he got in terms of verbals when he felt they crossed the line.. Maybe Gambhir is taking that approach too.. Why should it be wrong?

That's news. Because I've never heard of such a case. Accusing someone without even the slightest evidence is BS.

You may lose your cool at instances, but that's what umpires are there for, if you hear something really terrible, you report it, who will inturn report it to the match referee.

Take this example : A drunkard with a history of creating malice comes one day to you and start abusing you and your family and all that, would you go and "elbow" him? Or will you listen it and report to a policeman? Here the sledgers are even worse than the drunkard, because they have no excuse. So dont stoop to their level, and instead get the law working for you. That's why there are men paid and watching the match called as match referees.

Try watching the Sharjah match when India made more than 300 for the first time.. Sachin got Saqlain LBW and then mouthed "**** off" very very clearly.. Even Sunny Gavaskar was left speechless in commentary. And in Nairobi in the Champions Trophy in 2000, he was dishing out verbals to McGrath when McGrath didn't initiate anything. There is nothing wrong in it, for me, as long as the instances are isolated which is clearly the case with Sachin but not with guys like Harbhajan or Watson, who seem to do it every ball almost.. I am not painting Sachin as anything here.. I am just saying EVEN Sachin has lost his cool once in a while and as long as we don't know what Watson said and how dear the issue was to Gambhir, we should not be judging him saying stuff like "but Sachin never did that, so Gambhir shouldn't have done either"...

Not at all. Indian law has strict punishment structure. You get sworn at, you approach the law instead of taking it in your hands.

You get punished for physical assault but I have seen judgements watered down if there was evidence that there was enough verbal provocation...

 

[Precambrian]

Mumbai 2000.. He was captain and they were sledging him about not walking for an earlier nick. He nicked one down the leg side when on 97 and walked... Not saying he was "mentally" disintegrated.. That is a massive stretch. Just said it was an instance when the sledging might have worked even with someone like Sachin.. I am not blaming him.. Cool down...

Heh. I hope you're true there. Never seen or heard of Tendulkar walking.

Again, we don't know what was said. Maybe it was indeed worse than anything he had heard.. I am just saying that just because Sachin handled it one way doesn't mean everyone has to do it in the same way... And just because it has worked for Sachin, it does not mean it is the best way to react. I have seen Lara have more success against sledging than anyone else in my time of watching cricket and he never took a backward step to the bowlers.. He always gave them back what he got in terms of verbals when he felt they crossed the line.. Maybe Gambhir is taking that approach too.. Why should it be wrong?

Because Lara is Lara, he has the backing to do that. Can Gambhir emulate him? Yes, if he does the same emulation in his batting also.

Try watching the Sharjah match when India made more than 300 for the first time.. Sachin got Saqlain LBW and then mouthed "**** off" very very clearly.. Even Sunny Gavaskar was left speechless in commentary. And in Nairobi in the Champions Trophy in 2000, he was dishing out verbals to McGrath when McGrath didn't initiate anything. There is nothing wrong in it, for me, as long as the instances are isolated which is clearly the case with Sachin but not with guys like Harbhajan or Watson, who seem to do it every ball almost.. I am not painting Sachin as anything here.. I am just saying EVEN Sachin has lost his cool once in a while and as long as we don't know what Watson said and how dear the issue was to Gambhir, we should not be judging him saying stuff like "but Sachin never did that, so Gambhir shouldn't have done either"...

I've seen it, Tendulkar was agitated, but didnt mouth off, everyone was agitated in that match because of something that happened earlier in that match. I dunno exactly. But NO Indian was celebrating while taking Pakistani wickets, IIRC. (I think Sachin hit a 100 in that rite?, And Azhar carved into one of the Pakistani bowlers at the end)

Ok, you may lose your cool, and may mouth off. Agree. Maybe, Tendulkar also have done it once. But then you learn from your mistakes. Gambhir elbowed Afridi once and got into trouble. He didnt learn from it and elbowed Watson. And copped a ban. And still he says he has no regrets. Whom is he kidding? Doesnt he give any regard to "missing" out a test match due to his misadventure? Sad state of affairs indeed, if he puts his personal warped view of "pride" in front of the team's interests.

You get punished for physical assault but I have seen judgements watered down if there was evidence that there was enough verbal provocation...

No, the offence is watered down if it is in self-defence. Hitting someone or manhandling someone because he mouthed off, is a watered version of "eye for an eye", which would "make the whole world blind". Jungleraj indeed.

 

[four_or_six]

Yawn. When the Indian bowlers got lippy, they were praised for giving it back to the big bad Aussies. When the Aussies get lippy they're accused of not respecting Indian culture. It's all a bit daft but there we go.