***Official Australia in India***

[weldone]

Then again, India could collapse and Aussies could be chasing 400 with five sessions to go. In which case, watch out.

In other words, if tsunami attacks the Mount Everest tomorrow then the sun might not rise in the east. In which case, watch out.

Don't mind ss, I'm pulling your leg

 

[Precambrian]

I hope it doesnt rain there. It's bloody raining here in South India. Whats forecast like?

 

[weldone]

Yep, a total of around 450 with 140 overs to get will be fantastic. That will invoke both questions in the mind of Australian batsmen, whether to go for win or draw. Though I guess they'll go for the former.

Ya, 450 in 140 or so should be the target, you are right...But I have huge doubt whether Australia will go for the win in that case...In fact I can say with 99.99% confidence that they won't....

 

[silentstriker]

I wonder how long Mishra will have to wait for his next opportunity? Kumble obviously will return, probably next Test considering the time off in between. I don't think you can drop Harbhajan, and you can't play three spinners, even at Feroz Shah Kotla (though if you wanted to play three spinners, that'd be the place, but with Sehwag and Tendulkar able to spin the ball, in addition to the two main spinners, it's way way overkill).

 

[Furball]

Why should Kumble walk back into the side?

Mishra bowled better than he did in the first Test, he is the man in possession and should not be dropped unless his performance merits it.

 

[howardj]

I think Australia need to think long and hard about Cameron White's role in the team. By turning to Clarke before White, as Ponting invariably seems to do, it's clear there's no confidence in White to be our frontline spinner. And, batting at eight, his spot can't be justified by his batting.

The problem for White as I see it is that there is simply no scope for improvement in him as a spinner, in the sense that if he keeps the same action, there is no way - no matter how much experience he gains - that he'll be able to turn the ball enough to perform the role of a frontline spinner.

 

[morgieb]

We are so screwed in this game....

Haha, yeah.
BTW, looks like I pulled a Griegy with Amit Mishra.

 

[inbox24]

I think Australia need to think long and hard about Cameron White's role in the team. By turning to Clarke before White, as Ponting invariably seems to do, it's clear there's no confidence in White to be our frontline spinner. And, batting at eight, his spot can't be justified by his batting.

The problem for White as I see it is that there is simply no scope for improvement in him as a spinner, in the sense that if he keeps the same action, there is no way - no matter how much experience he gains - that he'll be able to turn the ball enough to perform the role of a frontline spinner.

I think they might be using White as a 'poor man's' Andrew Symonds. If that is the case then when Symonds comes back into contention he should be a direct swap for White. That would be strengthen the batting and bowling.

 

[silentstriker]

Why should Kumble walk back into the side?

Mishra bowled better than he did in the first Test, he is the man in possession and should not be dropped unless his performance merits it.

Think about whether you would drop Sachin if someone who would replaced him for a Test scored a century. You probably wouldn't. Kumble has won more Tests for India than any other player, including Tendulkar.

And he is also the captain.

 

[morgieb]

Think about whether you would drop Sachin if someone who would replaced him for a Test scored a century. You probably wouldn't. Kumble has won more Tests for India than any other player, including Tendulkar.

And he is also the captain.

Exactly right. Before this game, when was the last time India won without Kumble in his career.
Having said that, it'll be ITSTL to see whether he retires.

 

[Uppercut]

Think about whether you would drop Sachin if someone who would replaced him for a Test scored a century. You probably wouldn't. Kumble has won more Tests for India than any other player, including Tendulkar.

And he is also the captain.

I think there's a very real argument, though, for Mishra actually being the better bowler at this moment in time. I don't think you could do that for Tendulkar and his replacement, whoever that might be.

 

[silentstriker]

I think there's a very real argument, though, for Mishra actually being the better bowler at this moment in time. I don't think you could do that for Tendulkar and his replacement, whoever that might be.

You can't make that argument because that argument would be based on one or two innings of a Test match. The same argument that you'd use for a batting replacement.

 

[ret]

Of course everyone wants to win the toss because it DOES give you some advantage. I NEVER said that it doesn't BUT that advantage is NEVER enough in itself to win games for you. That is the difference. Its like saying every captain wants his openers to give a good start, lets say, at least 75 runs for the first wicket. Of course every captain will want that, but 75 runs for the first wicket does not win the Test for you.

Thats all there is to it. I am not saying anything else. And I dont want to remain in this debate just to have the last word. If that is what interests you please go ahead and write. I am done.

Good night.

I guess that everyone knows what you are saying so whats the point in providing stats of things that are obvious

it's a taken thing that every captain wants to win a toss or have the openers score a good partnership .... so when someone says that they also know that it's not always how it's going to happen or results were going to be determined by that

i thought there was little point in your providing stats to say that toss is not a big factor. if you wasted all your time on stats so you can come up with a post like the above then I don't know what to say except may be you should also come up with stats to suggest that failure to have a good opening partnership is not detrimental on a game

may be something like

teams with 50 or less in opening partnership = x percent
100 or less = y%

you don't need to waste your time on providing stats for points like that

Originally Posted by SJS
It is absolutely laughable to suggest that winning the toss will win the match for you. Only a good team will win the match. A toss, under some conditions could be a slight advantage but teams can and do win inspite of losing the toss.

In the entire history of the game here is what has happened to teams that have won the toss in Test matches.
- Total Tests played till date : 1878
- Won by team that won the toss : 645 - 34.34%
- Won by team that lost the toss : 570 - 30.35%

if you see that stats that you gave, the team winning the toss has a 4 points advantage!!!!

 

[Uppercut]

You can't make that argument because that argument would be based on one or two innings of a Test match. The same argument that you'd use for a batting replacement.

Hum, no i disagree. Firstly, Mishra is really an excellent bowler, and i've been advocating his selection (at least over Chawla) all year. Second, batsmen tend to struggle initially in tests. Legspinners (quality ones) have the fact that noone's faced them before, haven't worked out their variations or how much they'll turn it etc. Mishra has a lot more chance of being an effective bowler than Badri has of being an effective batsman. Third, Kumble's been poor for a long time now- not just his bowling, but his captaincy too, and i don't remember any rearguard batting actions this year (although im not saying they didn't happen).

I think having Mishra in over Kumble is fair enough, but his place may well be hanging in the balance going into the second innings here.

 

[Burgey]

I think Australia have over done thje slow and deliberate tactics this time around, despite them working well in 2004. IIRC, on that tour the batsmen still displayed a modicum of aggression from time to time. Right now, they just seem to be batting themselves into a hole.

As much as I admire Katich I don't know that he punishes bad bowling enough at the top of the order. Obviously, with Jaques now injured he'll stay at opener and to his credit he's doing what they've asked of him. I just dunno if they're asking him to do the right things.

Clarke and Haddin have batted themselves into holes on this tour, hell Clarke has hardly used his feet to the spinners, which is his trade mark. Seems to me the mindset witht he batting has taken occupation of the crease a little too far. If you're facing good quality bowling on its own dung hill, you'll get a good one eventually, especially if you're not someone who uses their feet to the spinners. Scratching around for 15-20 off 60-80 balls seems to be almost counter-productive.

Not taking anything away from India's bowling BTW, they've bowled really well. Harbhajan's extra loop has been great this match and Mishra was excellent too, but I'd like to have seen our fellas ask some more questions of him on debut.

The bowling side of things for Australia hasn't surprised me that much though - I thought Lee would be better, but with Clark injured Johnson has bowled better than I'd expected, Siddle has done his best and the spinners are as weak as we'd expected.

 

[Precambrian]

You can't make that argument because that argument would be based on one or two innings of a Test match. The same argument that you'd use for a batting replacement.

So what are you suggesting? Drop Mishra for Kumble?

Kumble in 2008, so far, has taken 25 wickets @ 52.16 from 9 test matches at a strike rate of 100. Clearly he's too old to dismiss that as slump in form.

 

[Uppercut]

So what are you suggesting? Drop Mishra for Kumble?

Kumble in 2008, so far, has taken 25 wickets @ 52.16 from 9 test matches at a strike rate of 100. Clearly he's too old to dismiss that as slump in form.

I wouldn't agree that he's too old to say it's a loss of form, but i don't see why an out-of-sorts Kumble should play over a very much in-form Mishra when that's what would make the team most likely to come out on top.

 

[silentstriker]

Well for one, he is the captain. Second, I'll back a guy with 600 wickets to come good than any new guy.

 

[Precambrian]

Yeah, Kumble might have won us matches in the past, but he's also a part of why India have had so many drawn games in the past. Due to over-bowling him even when he's not in form. eg- Year 1997, when he took 36 wickets from 12 matches @ 44 with a SR of 97. But this year 2008 has been the worst year by a mile for him in his career.

I feel he really needs to think his position in the team. Now that Dhoni has shown his captaincy abilities, and that we've got a reasonably experienced Harby to buddy with the new spinner (Mishy, Chawla or Ojha), I'd say it'll be better to do it soon than later.

 

[silentstriker]

Clearly he's too old to dismiss that as slump in form.

No, it's not clear at all. It's possible, but not clear.