***Official Australia in India***

[Matt79]

thats true .... and I hope that he does well but let's not forget that he was similar batsman on earlier tour too. it's not like he has improved by leaps and bounds on this tour .... yes, a bit more hard work both mentally and technically, some luck, but still the verdict will be out on him once the series is over and not because of what he did in the Ist innings at B'lore

Wasn't really. He wasn't the player he's been in the last few years when he first toured, he was still learning his own game. And on his second tour, he missed all bar the last test through injury, and that last test was played on a minefield.

 

[Top_Cat]

aren't some overrating Ponting's 100 on the benign Ist day pitch at B'lore against two spinners who are not known to do anything if the pitch has nothing in it for spin? *wondering* .... I would like to see how many times Ponting goes over 50 before jumping around with the idea that Ponting is back to business in India

something tells me that the excitement is not going to last long

Yeah, y'know what? Lots of people said the same thing before he got that ton. If you believed some, all Harbhajan had to do was warm-up and Ponting would walk off, bat under his arm, tail between his legs. Now he's got a ton, it's "Oh sure he did it against two spinners but the pitch was flat! Yeah!" Anything other than giving credit where it's due.

As I said before the series, he can't win. Even if he scores well for the rest of the series, it'll be "So what? Only one series, big deal! He still can't play spin in India!" It's crap, pure and simple. I agree he does need to carry it on a bit longer but geez, come on.

As for those bowlers not doing well without something in it, you might want to check Kumble's figures on his last two Test tours of Australia where he played on the flattest decks imaginable yet managed to be the best bowler on either side by far in 2003/04 and India's best on the last tour. Ponting was just better than him on the day last week. I'm no massive Ponting fan but that ton was all-class as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ret]

Wasn't really. He wasn't the player he's been in the last few years when he first toured, he was still learning his own game. And on his second tour, he missed all bar the last test through injury, and that last test was played on a minefield.

as I said, I hope that he does well and this is a good opportunity with India playing both Kumble and Bhajji .... but as I said, I will still wait for the series to get over before giving out a verdict

123, 17 .... 21,44 .... 23, 2 .... 55, 18 .... thats more likely

 

[ret]

ndia v Australia, 2nd Test, Mohali

Kumble's form a problem for India - Ponting

Cricinfo staff
October 16, 2008

Ricky Ponting: "If you had to look at someone who was going to go out to make way for a quick, it would probably have to be [Kumble]"

Ricky Ponting has said that the disappointing form of his opposing captain Anil Kumble could turn into an issue for India at the selection table in the lead-up to the second Test. Kumble, who turns 38 on Friday, failed to collect a wicket in the first Test and has faced intense media scrutiny about retirement plans.

Kumble was also battling a shoulder injury in Bangalore, although he is confident he will be fit for the second Test in Mohali, which starts on Friday. But Ponting said with wet weather a concern and the Mohali pitch renowned for offering assistance to seamers, India would need to think long and hard about including two spinners.

"They're in a bit of a predicament I think with Anil being their captain," Ponting told the Australian. "If you had to look at someone who was going to go out to make way for a quick, it would probably have to be him.

"Harbhajan [Singh] has a great record against Australia and is probably bowling better than Kumble at the moment so that's where the difficulty comes. If they happen to drop Kumble it would probably be a long way back for him so it will be interesting to see what they do."

The rematch after the five-day draw in Bangalore will be revealing following the after-match niggle, in which Zaheer Khan said Australia had played overly defensively. But Ponting said Zaheer, who was the Man of the Match for his six wickets and first-innings half-century, should worry about his own performance.

"He's just happened to have a good game as well, which is pretty unusual for him," Ponting said. "He's had a good game. It's up to him to back it up again. I think a lot of his comments might have been to try and get us to play a different style and different brand of cricket."

© Cricinfo

This is the series where both captains have a lot to prove .... Ponting for his record in India and Kumble for his place in the side .... so many battles will be on at Mohali, which makes the encounter more interesting

will be interesting to see Kumble's reaction, if he gets Ponting

 

[silentstriker]

Yeah, y'know what? Lots of people said the same thing before he got that ton. If you believed some, all Harbhajan had to do was warm-up and Ponting would walk off, bat under his arm, tail between his legs. Now he's got a ton, it's "Oh sure he did it against two spinners but the pitch was flat! Yeah!" Anything other than giving credit where it's due.

As I said before the series, he can't win. Even if he scores well for the rest of the series, it'll be "So what? Only one series, big deal! He still can't play spin in India!" It's crap, pure and simple. I agree he does need to carry it on a bit longer but geez, come on.

As for those bowlers not doing well without something in it, you might want to check Kumble's figures on his last two Test tours of Australia where he played on the flattest decks imaginable yet managed to be the best bowler on either side by far in 2003/04 and India's best on the last tour. Ponting was just better than him on the day last week. I'm no massive Ponting fan but that ton was all-class as far as I'm concerned.

On these forums, I have been the biggest detractor of Ponting's record in India, so I can't help but feel it was directed at me. First, I gave full credit to Ponting when he did score, and I think so did most others so I don't think you can say that. However, you can't claim Kumble of then was Kumble of 1st Test. He was not bowling well at ALL. He was inaccurate, went for a lot of runs, and probably unfit. It scored his runs on a very batsman friendly pitch and a mediocre spin attack, in the first innings to boot.

With that said, everyone who succeeds in India, has to do those things, and he did. So I don't see the problem. He did what great players should do, and what he hadn't done up till that point, so he definitely answered some questions. He got an opportunity, and scored a century - you can't do better than that. He got off to a great start - we'll know by the end whether all his India questions have been answered. He doesn't even have to score another century, if he plays well on some breaking surfaces vs. spinners, I'll be completely satisfied with his record in India.

 

[Prince EWS]

On these forums, I have been the biggest detractor of Ponting's record in India, so I can't help but feel it was directed at me. First, I gave full credit to Ponting when he did score, and I think so did most others so I don't think you can say that. However, you can't claim Kumble of then was Kumble of 1st Test. He was not bowling well at ALL. He was inaccurate, went for a lot of runs, and probably unfit. It scored his runs on a very batsman friendly pitch and a mediocre spin attack, in the first innings to boot.

With that said, everyone who succeeds in India, has to do those things, and he did. So I don't see the problem. He did what great players should do, and what he hadn't done up till that point, so he definitely answered some questions. He got an opportunity, and scored a century - you can't do better than that. He got off to a great start - we'll know by the end whether all his India questions have been answered. He doesn't even have to score another century, if he plays well on some breaking surfaces vs. spinners, I'll be completely satisfied with his record in India.

Yeah, AWTA.

He hasn't answered all his critics just by scoring a ton although it does go a some way to doing so. He played a good innings but he needs to do more than that to make up for averaging 9 or whatever it actually was AFAIC. A couple of fifties in tough conditions against the spinners would just about do it from here and I certainly think he has it in him. He needed the ton but it doesn't absolve him of past failures, particuarly if he goes back to being a bunny for the rest of the series.

Personally I think he'll have a good series and remove the black mark against his name by doing so, but it's not gone already just because he scored a ton.

 

[Precambrian]

Yep. Though Ponting was quite impressive in Bangalore Test 1st innings, chances are that he might do what exactly Saurav Ganguly did during 2003-04 down under tour. Started wth a blistering hundred, however faded from thereon and ended up with a career record that smacks of non-performance in Australia.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Did anyone debut between Pattinson and White? Possibly three in a row.

Mendis.

 

[Prince EWS]

Mendis.

Yeah, pretty sure that Prasad bloke who opened the bowling in that series was making his debut as well.

 

[Pratters]

India in West Indies 1996-97

Indian batting side

1. Siddhu
2. Dravid
3. Azharuddin
4. Tendulkar
5. Laxman
6. Ganguly
7. Jadeja
8. Mongia

Bowling side

1. Kuruvilla
2. Venkatesh Prasad
3. Doda Ganesh
4. Anil Kumble
5. Sunil Joshi
6. Saurav Ganguly

It was a five Test series that india lost 1-0.

The new ball attack was laughable and Kumble was the only world class bowler.

That looks bad on paper but I happened to see the series and guess what? The stats didn't have the biggest disparity in the world in that series.

The stats -

Batting -

R Dravid 5 7 2 360 92 72.00 1137 31.66 0 4 0 33 1
SR Tendulkar 5 6 1 289 92 57.80 691 41.82 0 3 0 34 1
A Jadeja 2 2 0 104 96 52.00 280 37.14 0 1 0 8 2
NS Sidhu 4 6 0 276 201 46.00 675 40.88 1 0 1 32 1
VVS Laxman 4 6 0 172 64 28.66 467 36.83 0 2 1 15 0
NR Mongia 5 5 0 140 78 28.00 431 32.48 0 1 0 10 0
SB Joshi 4 4 1 84 43 28.00 222 37.83 0 0 0 6 1
SC Ganguly 4 4 0 78 42 19.50 238 32.77 0 0 0 10 0
A Kumble 5 5 2 58 23* 19.33 176 32.95 0 0 0 3 0
M Azharuddin 5 5 0 63 31 12.60 161 39.13 0 0 0 6 0

Bowling -

SB Joshi 4 6 120.1 28 331 11 3/57 6/136 30.09 2.75 65.5 0 0 1 0
A Kumble 5 7 200.4 44 576 19 5/104 8/196 30.31 2.87 63.3 2 0 2 0
D Ganesh 2 3 34.0 5 122 4 2/28 4/98 30.50 3.58 51.0 0 0 0 0
A Kuruvilla 5 8 172.0 34 480 13 5/68 6/156 36.92 2.79 79.3 1 0 0 0
BKV Prasad 5 8 169.4 43 465 11 5/82 8/121 42.27 2.74 92.5 1 0 2 0

Joshi, Kumble and Ganesh didn't do badly. The problem was Venkatesh Prasad who was clicking well around that period (like the 1996/97 tour to South Africa) not having a good series after Srinath had missed out on the series.

There is more than just stats to it. Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman were new to the team, Ganguly, Laxman and Azhar (who never used to play well in the West Indies) didn't have a good series with the bat. Moreover, Ganguly was dropped from the test XI.

 

[Furball]

Kumble is not a big spinner of the ball, but he has done OK

Maybe we should forget about White needing to be a big spinner like Stuart Mac and Warney, and model himself more on the Indian champ?

White has a good top spinner and a decent googly, and bowls a good length which is three out of five not too bad

Not saying that he has to be a massive turner of the ball.

If he could impart a bit more turn on the ball, he'd actually be a very good bowler though. Not a world beater, but I'd back him to take a decent stack of wickets at a low 30s average.

 

[Speersy]

So Siddle is going to make his debut. Could some one just briefly tell me why Bollinger didn't get a run. Is he injured, is he still in India?

 

[archie mac]

Not saying that he has to be a massive turner of the ball.

If he could impart a bit more turn on the ball, he'd actually be a very good bowler though. Not a world beater, but I'd back him to take a decent stack of wickets at a low 30s average.

They have tried to get him to bowl a turning leggie, but the rest of his action suffers; control, length ect

So I think he should play to the things he does well But yes it would be good if he could add a better turning leggie

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Think Bollinger not getting a run has to do with not wanting to open up the footmarks for Kumble and Harby.

 

[Top_Cat]

On these forums, I have been the biggest detractor of Ponting's record in India, so I can't help but feel it was directed at me.

Actually, no! Nothing you've said has been unfair from what I remember.

First, I gave full credit to Ponting when he did score, and I think so did most others so I don't think you can say that. However, you can't claim Kumble of then was Kumble of 1st Test. He was not bowling well at ALL. He was inaccurate, went for a lot of runs, and probably unfit. It scored his runs on a very batsman friendly pitch and a mediocre spin attack, in the first innings to boot.

With that said, everyone who succeeds in India, has to do those things, and he did. So I don't see the problem. He did what great players should do, and what he hadn't done up till that point, so he definitely answered some questions. He got an opportunity, and scored a century - you can't do better than that. He got off to a great start - we'll know by the end whether all his India questions have been answered. He doesn't even have to score another century, if he plays well on some breaking surfaces vs. spinners, I'll be completely satisfied with his record in India.

Don't disagree with any of that. I'm more referring to those who, no matter what he does, just because they don't like him or think he looks like a chimp, won't rate him or find a basis to minimise what he's done.

FTR, I agree largely. He needs to do more to correct the perception of him in India and, personally, a successful series here shouldn't erase what he hasn't done in the past either. It's just there are those who essentially reckon you can pluck any spinner out of obscurity and they'll knock Ponting over in India whereas if you check his dismissals, he's basically been dismissed consistently by two bowlers, Kumble and Harbhajan, the only spinners playing for India who've been in the side for any length of time i.e. their two best bowlers!

It's almost as bad as getting stuck into Mike Atherton as being weak against pace because Ambrose and McGrath got him all the time but that ignores his record against the all the other pre-eminent pace bowlers of his time like Donald, etc.

 

[Johnners]

Johnson to have the new ball then probs. Fantastic.

Best of luck Sids. May your moobs spur you on to a ten-fer.

AWTA

Kinda surprised Bollinger didn't get the nod, but good luck to Siddle, even though he is a Victorian!

I don't know about everyone else, but I kinda get excited when blokes are making their debuts, or we have a few inexperience guys in the team. There's few things better than seeing younger blokes make a name for themselves on the international arena.

 

[Days of Grace]

Why doesn't Nathan Bracken get a go in test cricket?

Surely one of the world's best ODI bowlers wouldn't shame himself in Test Cricket?

 

[Top_Cat]

Quote from Ponting;

"He's just happened to have a good game as well, which is pretty unusual for him."
The gloves are off. Ricky Ponting responds to Zaheer Khan's comment about the Australians being overly defensive in Bangalore

Haha, Ricky getting narky. He doesn't usually get personal in public and probably wouldn't have had he not scored a ton in the last Test......

Still reckon it's all pretty pointless and only serves to fire the other guy up but it's entertaining if nothing else.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

Quote from Ponting;

"He's just happened to have a good game as well, which is pretty unusual for him."
The gloves are off. Ricky Ponting responds to Zaheer Khan's comment about the Australians being overly defensive in Bangalore

Haha, Ricky getting narky. He doesn't usually get personal in public and probably wouldn't have had he not scored a ton in the last Test......

Still reckon it's all pretty pointless and only serves to fire the other guy up but it's entertaining if nothing else.

Nice little cheap shot.

 

[pasag]

Quote from Ponting;

"He's just happened to have a good game as well, which is pretty unusual for him."
The gloves are off. Ricky Ponting responds to Zaheer Khan's comment about the Australians being overly defensive in Bangalore

Haha, Ricky getting narky. He doesn't usually get personal in public and probably wouldn't have had he not scored a ton in the last Test......

Still reckon it's all pretty pointless and only serves to fire the other guy up but it's entertaining if nothing else.