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***Official Australia in India***

Top_Cat

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If he is used the right way i.e in short sharp burst with the old ball especially i see no reason why Tait even though he has just returned wouldn't be a very uncomfortable bowler for India to face.

With no Warne to call on to give the bowling attack that extra variety, Tait 150 kmph yorrkers is just perfect. When Harbhajan & Khan were batting having, if he was there couldn't see them doing that.
I'm as big a Tait fan as anyone and there's no way he should be anywhere near a Test match. He himself has said it. Tait's a really pragmatic type and he's aware enough to know his bowling is just not there yet. A full (and successful) season for SA should be the pre-requisite to even be considered for a winter tour, short of Doug Bollinger, Ash Noffke, Mitchell Johnson, Brett Lee, Stuart Clarke, Steve Magoffin and Ben Hilfenhous all being killed in a bus crash.
 

pasag

RTDAS
Not to mention Geeves and Siddle have all leapfrogged him as well. Just shouldn't be anywhere near discussion, let alone the Test side until this time next year.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Makes sense, gets carted against India, breaks down and quits the game, one FC match later and you want him back into the Test side above a proven performer like Bollinger? Grrr.
I like Bollinger as a bowler and always have but his "proven" nature is a bit exaggerated AFAIC.

He was excellent for NSW last season and you could argue (quite rightly) that he always looked good but was never given a consistent run, but I don't really think you should be termed a proved First Class bowler after one decent season and one brilliant season, TBH.

Doug Bollinger
2002-03 - 13 wickets @ 59.07
2003-04 - 1 wicket @ 87.00
2004-05 - 2 wickets @ 102.00
2005-06 - 10 wickets @ 58.70
2006-07 - 37 wickets @ 28.37
2007-08 - 45 wickets @ 15.44

I think he's a good bowler and deserves his selection; I just think the way he's been spoken about as someone who has churned out the wickets season after season is a bit exaggerated at times. He was certainly very good last season and always looked the part even when getting poor returns in previous years, but he isn't quite the king of the First Class cricket.

All that said, Bollinger's done very well for Australia A and on tour with Australia so he definitely shouldn't be leapfrogged by someone who just took time off the game, especially mid-tour. I just don't think he's a "proven" brilliant First Class performer - not yet anyway.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Nope, totally agree with Cribb. Bollinger never did anything particualrly special in FC cricket until last season, and struggled in his stint in CC. Yes, he deserves consideration, but he's definitely overhyped.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
I'm as big a Tait fan as anyone and there's no way he should be anywhere near a Test match. He himself has said it. Tait's a really pragmatic type and he's aware enough to know his bowling is just not there yet. A full (and successful) season for SA should be the pre-requisite to even be considered for a winter tour, short of Doug Bollinger, Ash Noffke, Mitchell Johnson, Brett Lee, Stuart Clarke, Steve Magoffin and Ben Hilfenhous all being killed in a bus crash.
Lol, i gues your right. I reckon my eagerness to have Tait back for this India series, is the fact that i had little faith in any of the quicks to back-up Lee/Clark combo, until Johnson tentatively has eased my worries.

But seriously though although i have not seen Bollinger & Magoffin bowl (although he was in ENG this year was in DIV 2 so missed him). A potential fit & firing Tait at the end of the Australian domestic season with 5 bowlers likely to be picked for the Ashes tour, Tait surely wouldn't be that far down the pecking order.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Not to mention Geeves and Siddle have all leapfrogged him as well. Just shouldn't be anywhere near discussion, let alone the Test side until this time next year.
Haven't seen Siddle so won't comment (although deep down, i doubt his creditials as better option than Tait ATM). Seen Greeves & no, surely this is an over exaggeration on your part?.
 

gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
Haven't seen Siddle so won't comment (although deep down, i doubt his creditials as better option than Tait ATM). Seen Greeves & no, surely this is an over exaggeration on your part?.
Exaggerations all round I say. Other than Lee and Clark, the likes of Geeves, Bollinger, Siddle, Hilfenhaus and possibly Tait and even possibly Johnson have never strung good/great consecutive seasons together.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Exaggerations all round I say. Other than Lee and Clark, the likes of Geeves, Bollinger, Siddle, Hilfenhaus and possibly Tait and even possibly Johnson have never strung good/great consecutive seasons together.
Shaun Tait
2002-03 - 20 wickets @ 22.55
2003-04 - 33 wickets @ 29.00
2004-05 - 65 wickets @ 20.16
2005-06 - 14 wickets @ 38.35
2006-07 - 32 wickets @ 27.28
2007-08 - 11 wickets @ 34.09

Mitchell Johnson
2001-02 - 6 wickets @ 36.00
2002-03 - N/A
2003-04 - 2 wickets @ 29.50
2004-05 - 9 wickets @ 36.11
2005-06 - 29 wickets @ 25.77
2006-07 - 12 wickets @ 24.58
2007-08 - 31 wickets @ 37.80

Stuart Clark
1997-98 - 4 wickets @ 76.75
1998-99 - 2 wickets @ 220.50
1999-00 - N/A
2000-01 - 8 wickets @ 25.27
2001-02 - 45 wickets @ 23.26
2002-03 - 36 wickets @ 33.00
2003-04 - 28 wickets @ 38.26
2004-05 - 40 wickets @ 25.97
2005-06 - 17 wickets @ 22.05
2006-07 - 20 wickets @ 15.85
2007-80 - 35 wickets @ 30.40

Lots of talent in the Australian fast bowling stocks, but not a lot of consistency throughout seasons really - not even for Clark until recently.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I say declare, Aus have three Tests to swing back the deficit if they wind up losing! :D
India have only once scored over 300 runs in the 4th innings to win a Test match. That was in that famous match in the West Indies 32 years ago when they scored 406 for 4.

The only other time they have scored 250 plus to win was in Sri Lanka in 2001 - 264 for 3 and in 1964 against Australia - 256 for 8.

I think Ponting has enough runs. If he bats another forty minutes and leaves them 300 he would have shut all doors on India but would have slightly reduced his own window of opportunity too. If Australia bat more than half an hour/forty minutes, it is stupid.
At times to force a win you have to risk losing a game. I think Ponting may err on the side of caution, but I do not expect him to bat for too long in the morning.
Anybody who thinks that, in the 1st Test of a four match series, that Ponting is going to make a sporting declaration or in any way leave the door even slightly ajar for India, is clearly living in la la land.
I actually agree with all of these posts, and certainly if Australia were one down with this test to play, I'd expect a declaration overnight.

But, given Australia's record in India and the fact this side is largely inexperienced in these conditions, I'd expect what HJ says to be spot ont he money.

And in fairness to Ponting, it's probably the right way to go. We all like to think of aggressive cricket, and no doubt it's great to watch. however, as Roebuck said on radio last night "Aggressive declarations take place a lot more in the commentary box than they ever do on a field". If Ponting declared andindia got the total, he'd be slaughtered in the press.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
And in fairness to Ponting, it's probably the right way to go. We all like to think of aggressive cricket, and no doubt it's great to watch. however, as Roebuck said on radio last night "Aggressive declarations take place a lot more in the commentary box than they ever do on a field". If Ponting declared andindia got the total, he'd be slaughtered in the press.
Yeah, it's the right call. Bat for a while tonight going for quick runs, if they can score at 5 an over or so for 10 overs that puts the lead over 300 with around 2 and a half sessions to go. Leaves the door open for an Australian win with good bowling, makes an Indian win all but impossible, and while a draw would be disappointing for Australia it's not the end of the world.

I think Australia would win today if they had Warne. He just had such a knack for bowling for the win on the 5th day. Still, I think it's a fair chance. If Australia can grab a couple of new ball wickets, I can see Clarke and even White being fairly tricky to play given what the ball was doing yesterday. I'm tipping a win.
 

howardj

International Coach
Gun to see Watson contributing. As I said earlier, he's a fragile type who needs time to settle. Anyway, if McGain doesn't come good (I understand he won't be available until the SA series) I personally don't think we have another specialist spinner worth selecting. Therefore, I would draft Symonds in and put him at seven for the series against NZ.

Hayden
Katich
Ponting
Freak
Clarke
Watson
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Johnson
Clark.
 

Top_Cat

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Gun to see Watson contributing. As I said earlier, he's a fragile type who needs time to settle. Anyway, if McGain doesn't come good (I understand he won't be available until the SA series) I personally don't think we have another specialist spinner worth selecting. Therefore, I would draft Symonds in and put him at seven for the series against NZ.

Hayden
Katich
Ponting
Freak
Clarke
Watson
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Johnson
Clark.
There's no way Watto has done enough to displace Symonds at 6. Pick one, the other or bat Watto below Symonds.

That's actually a strong line-up, I reckon. Just in the wrong order. :D
 

Malleeboy

U19 12th Man
There's no way Watto has done enough to displace Symonds at 6. Pick one, the other or bat Watto below Symonds.

That's actually a strong line-up, I reckon. Just in the wrong order. :D
Depends how much they put on FC records versus Test record. Watson has a far better FC record but Symonds has the runs on the board in the Test arena. Watson does look to have a more correct technique. Both being in the team would make it a daunting batting line up.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Gun to see Watson contributing. As I said earlier, he's a fragile type who needs time to settle. Anyway, if McGain doesn't come good (I understand he won't be available until the SA series) I personally don't think we have another specialist spinner worth selecting. Therefore, I would draft Symonds in and put him at seven for the series against NZ.

Hayden
Katich
Ponting
Freak
Clarke
Watson
Symonds
Haddin
Lee
Johnson
Clark.
I love it, but as T_C said, Symonds to bat ahead Watto.
 

Salamuddin

International Debutant
I do not know what makes you think "politics is rife in Indian cricket". It would be much better to say which player you think should have played in place of which player (who was kept in the side due to "Politics") and I will give a detailed reply.

Yes the selection system is not perfect thanks to a sort of 'proportional representation" in the selection of selectors. But invariably that effects (on the few occasions that it does which is not as often as is claimed) the fringe players in a touring squad. Of course, everyone is not satisfied with the final selection but thats no surprise. I haven't ever seen a billion people agreeing on fifteen names. So if the player YOU or I think should be in the squad blame it on politics if he doesn't.

Of course, different selectors think differently. Sometimes a player is chosen with three selectors for and two against. Clearly if two of five selectors think he should not be selected, there will be millions amongst the fans who will think so too. Does that imply politics? Is there no room for 'normal' unbiased dissent amongst selectors and fans? Must we always assume the worst?

The panel under Vengsarkar did not think Ganguly deserved a place in the Rest of India squad and the one under Srikanth felt he should be in the squad for the first two Tests. Does this necessarily mean one or the other selection panel was indulging in politics? Is it not possible that these five people (or the majority amongst them) think differently than the majority in the earlier panel?

By the way, how come no one screams for politics in the dropping of Jaffer (a Mumbai man with two Test double hundreds). I am not saying he should be in the side. Just pointing out that fans are fickle and they have their favourites and the moment they (the favourites) are not selected the red light is turned on.

How many chances Badrinath got this year in all? Wanr me to tell you what he scored?

When you get a chance you have to encash it? Its a tough professional world.

Kaif was unlucky to be dropped after the West Indies tour in 2006. But why was he in the side in the first place? because Sachin was injured. When Sachin came back, he had to play. Is this politics? Doesn't it happen in Australia. Want to count the number of times MacGill has filled in for Warne with great distinction and yet been dropped when Warne returned. It has also happened to batsmen. Was that politics?

Yes. I too think Kaif has been very unlucky in this respect and i do believe that some players are more equal than the others in India due to their glamour but that includes Yuvraj, probably at the top of the list. He is the media's darling, fans love him and he has very powerful backers (even if we dont get into the argument about how talented he is) and yet he has played only 23 Test matches. Surely an average of 32.8 PLUS all these other factors I mentioned in the preceding sentence PLUS a hint of politics should have seen him play more. Was it politics that kept him out or that made him play even the 23 Tests that he did?
SJS, I played divisional cricket in Tamil Nadu - I have some idea of how the system works in India. I also play Shires cricket here in Sydney so I can relate a lot of what I see in Australia back to how things are done in India.
I stand firm in my belief that selection is not based purely on merit in India.....Kaif averages 63 in his last 5 test matches (including a match saving effort against England) ...now why was he dropped for Ganguly in 2006.
Ganguly is not an all time great test batsman or anything ....he was a ok test batsman - but a guy who would more often than not fail against stronger bowling attacks and/or in demanding conditions.
So why was he recalled in place of a younger batsman who had shown promise and who had his whole future ahead of him - not to mention a vastly superior fielder also ? Why was he recalled for this test against Australia when the previous selection committee decided to overlook him for the Irani trophy ?
Why ignore Kaif, a guy who had just made 94 against some of the best performers in Pura Cup two weeks ago for India A for a guy who has never really done well against AUstralia ?
I can guarantee you that in a professional system like Australia, Ganguly would never have made it back into the team.

I can give you a couple of other names off the top of my head that have been harshly done by:
Pankaj Dharmani - wicketkeeper who averaged over 50 in domestic including runs against touring international teams. Never even got a single test for India and a bunch of guys with decidely inferior records did.
Aakash Chopra - Guy showed real promise as a test opener in 2003 but hey we jerked him out of the team just to accommodate Yuvraj.

You talk about fickle fans....and yes that is true, a lot of Indian fans are fickle. However a lot of Indian fans exhibit another quality - they can't accept the flaws in their cricketing heroes and the fact there may actually be better options albeit less glamorous options than them.
Sachin Tendulkar is the classic example - good player but massively overrated; He almost invariably flops in situations where India need him to play well.
But very few India fans are willing to accept that.

Greg Chappell alluded to this when he was India's coach - if a guy is a superstar, he is virtually untouchable irrespective of performance - India seems to have this attitude that a younger player could not possibly be better than some of the senior guys.


You have to ask yourself why a country with an unmatched passion for the game and a strong talent base does not consistently churn out good performances.
That's because the system sucks - Big Time. Lack of professionalism in administration, training and development, favouritism in team selection etc....the list goes on.
 
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Top_Cat

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Depends how much they put on FC records versus Test record. Watson has a far better FC record but Symonds has the runs on the board in the Test arena. Watson does look to have a more correct technique. Both being in the team would make it a daunting batting line up.
This is one example where the perfection of technique and runs at a lower level of the game (Symonds has more international runs in many and varied conditions/states of the game than Watto, not just Tests really) should also be considered with the other stuff that Symonds brings to the team (leadership, aura, fear in the opposition). If I was a member of the opposition, I'd be far more apprehensive at Symonds arriving at the crease than Watto at this stage of their careers.

Watto still has so many question marks at international level (mostly through lack of time in Aust colours, obviously) whereas everyone knows Symonds can make runs at the highest level against tough opponents in tough conditions. Far more intimidating player at the moment.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Kumble is finished. Next Test is in Mohali, and we have to play three fast bowlers. Spinners, especially Kumble, is releasing the pressure too much and too often.
 

pasag

RTDAS
I like Bollinger as a bowler and always have but his "proven" nature is a bit exaggerated AFAIC.

He was excellent for NSW last season and you could argue (quite rightly) that he always looked good but was never given a consistent run, but I don't really think you should be termed a proved First Class bowler after one decent season and one brilliant season, TBH.

Doug Bollinger
2002-03 - 13 wickets @ 59.07
2003-04 - 1 wicket @ 87.00
2004-05 - 2 wickets @ 102.00
2005-06 - 10 wickets @ 58.70
2006-07 - 37 wickets @ 28.37
2007-08 - 45 wickets @ 15.44

I think he's a good bowler and deserves his selection; I just think the way he's been spoken about as someone who has churned out the wickets season after season is a bit exaggerated at times. He was certainly very good last season and always looked the part even when getting poor returns in previous years, but he isn't quite the king of the First Class cricket.

All that said, Bollinger's done very well for Australia A and on tour with Australia so he definitely shouldn't be leapfrogged by someone who just took time off the game, especially mid-tour. I just don't think he's a "proven" brilliant First Class performer - not yet anyway.
Proven in relation to Tait (and everyone else in contention). He's coming off a stellar Fc season and has done all that's been asked of him in the tour and A match. What has Tait done aside from breaking down?
 

pasag

RTDAS
Haven't seen Siddle so won't comment (although deep down, i doubt his creditials as better option than Tait ATM). Seen Greeves & no, surely this is an over exaggeration on your part?.
Tait is quite literally at the back of the line here. I was one of the only people that defended him when he called it quits on here but you don't get to quit and then come straight back in to Tests.
 

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