***Official Australia in India***

[JackPot]

If India dont clean up the tail, i see some trouble

 

[JackPot]

ITBT

 

[silentstriker]

It can be overstated when it's taken to mean that the guy can't play spin or can't play in subcontinental conditions.

Ponting had a terrible series (in fact, two pretty bad ones), but it was 7 years ago and he hasn't played a test of note in India since he really came of age as a test batsman, until today. It was overstated because people took it to mean far too much about him as a player.

Obviously it was a significant blemish, though.

First two sessions of a Test match, hardly trying spin though. But, as I said above, the record was overall, and you have to score on these pitches too.

So I pretty much agree with you. It was a significant blemish, and he did need to correct it. If he didn't, it would have seriously affected (at least my opinion obviously) his position in the all time pantheon.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

That's the point though, that people took "Ponting has a poor record in India" and took it to mean that he couldn't play spin, despite the evidence to the contrary, or that he couldn't play in subcontinental conditions, again, despite the evidence to the contrary. There are reasons why Ponting has a poor record in India compared to other countries, including his struggles against spin during a certain part of his career, and with a certain bowler in particular, and the pressure he was under at that time as a player, and above all the fact that he hasn't played there since he came of age as a batsman, while he has played everywhere else (except Pakistan).

In the years since there has been enough evidence that he's corrected those flaws in his game that I don't think the overall record in India was relevant to anything. "Ponting struggled against spin and with X and Y during the early part of his career" is a perfectly valid criticism, and always will be, even if he averages 150 in this series and carries Australia to a clean sweep. "Ponting is incapable of performing in India" is not, and hasn't been for some time now. It was never that simple.

 

[JackPot]

Ponting's century couldn't have come at any better time than this. He surely have silenced all his critics for good hopefully.
The only thing he gotta do now is not to give his wicket away to Bajji.

 

[silentstriker]

That's the point though, that people took "Ponting has a poor record in India" and took it to mean that he couldn't play spin, despite the evidence to the contrary, or that he couldn't play in subcontinental conditions, again, despite the evidence to the contrary. There are reasons why Ponting has a poor record in India compared to other countries, including his struggles against spin during a certain part of his career, and with a certain bowler in particular, and the pressure he was under at that time as a player, and above all the fact that he hasn't played there since he came of age as a batsman, while he has played everywhere else (except Pakistan).

In the years since there has been enough evidence that he's corrected those flaws in his game that I don't think the overall record in India was relevant to anything. "Ponting struggled against spin and with X and Y during the early part of his career" is a perfectly valid criticism, and always will be, even if he averages 150 in this series and carries Australia to a clean sweep. "Ponting is incapable of performing in India" is not, and hasn't been for some time now. It was never that simple.

I think though that such critisims are valid until you actually do. It's fair enough that his last series in India was in 2001 where he played the whole thing, and he is a different player since then, but every equating subcontinent with India is like equating winning in Australia with winning New Zealand. It's different challenges. To me, until you do it, you are held responsible for it. Wehther the reasons are historical, technical or mental, it still has to be done.

It's less of 'he couldn't score runs', than 'he hasn't scored runs', and the latter is most important than the former. As for spin, we'll see how he does playing spin in India - that jury is still out. We'll know by the end of the series.

 

[pup11]

First two sessions of a Test match, hardly trying spin though. But, as I said above, the record was overall, and you have to score on these pitches too.

So I pretty much agree with you. It was a significant blemish, and he did need to correct it. If he didn't, it would have seriously affected (at least my opinion obviously) his position in the all time pantheon.

I think now that Ponting has overcome this mental block of not having scored much in India, he would play a lot more freely through this series, great time for him to come up with such a great knock, walking into bat in the very first over itself with no runs on the board, he showed tremendous mental strength in the way he batted.

This knock is going to give him a lot of confidence, and i am sure he would bat against the spinners even in testing conditions with a lot more conviction now.

 

[JackPot]

"We would look to 400 plus on Friday and see how we can put pressure on India from there," Katich said after the end of the first day's play.


I think if any of the remaining batsmen can give some support to hussey, a score of well over 550 is on the cards....

 

[silentstriker]

This knock is going to give him a lot of confidence, and i am sure he would bat against the spinners even in testing conditions with a lot more conviction now.

You're most likely right. But as I said before - you haven't done it till you've done it. So it's wait and see. I said before it began that he was playing for his place in history, and he's had a perfect start to that and already has one huge monkey off his back, so kudos to him.

 

[JackPot]

India's bowling coach Venkatesh Prasad has done some talking to the media before the series began that he has been training the bowlers to execute specific plans particular to each individual aussie batsmen....

well, i think its all obvious now about the plans he had for ponting, let alone katich and hussey....and the rest of the top order aussie batsmen

 

[JackPot]

Ponting on this wonderful century :

"I'm as pleased with that innings as I probably have been with any innings I've ever played," Ponting said.

"I'd played eight tests here before with a highest score of 60, so I had some work to do. I had a point to prove to a few people as well.

"I've been working hard on getting a game plan and technique in place over the last couple of weeks to give myself the best chance to have success."

 

[Pratters]

I think though that such critisims are valid until you actually do. It's fair enough that his last series in India was in 2001 where he played the whole thing, and he is a different player since then, but every equating subcontinent with India is like equating winning in Australia with winning New Zealand. It's different challenges. To me, until you do it, you are held responsible for it. Wehther the reasons are historical, technical or mental, it still has to be done.

It's less of 'he couldn't score runs', than 'he hasn't scored runs', and the latter is most important than the former. As for spin, we'll see how he does playing spin in India - that jury is still out. We'll know by the end of the series.

DWTA strongly and agree with Fuller(Faaip..) (as my earlier post on the topic said). Just because you haven't done some thing in your career doesn't mean that you can't assess the player's capabilities of handling similar aspects. Ponting for instance has shown that he can play spin in his career. Just because he could not in a particular phase can't allow any one to make simple statements like he can't play spin in Indian conditions.

Your comparison with New Zealand and Australia are ridiculous imo. Subcontinent conditions are subcontinent conditions. If you scored in country x against quality spin, it is proof enough that you can handle quality spin in subcontinent conditions. Facing India in India compared to facing Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka is not as different as the Aus-Nzl comparision you put forward.

Any one assessing Ponting's game as a player can come to a conclusion that he has matured as a player and can handle x,y,z. It is not necessary to have the tag X average against India in India to be called a great or when comparing him with other greats. Anomolies in records can happen but to extrapolate it to the extent it has been done with Ponting over the past few years is plain and simply wrong.

 

[silentstriker]

. Anomolies in records can happen but to extrapolate it to the extent it has been done with Ponting over the past few years is plain and simply wrong.

The question is not one of anomalies, which happen, but being able to fix them after getting repeated tries. At the end of this series, he will have played 12 Tests, which is enough to judge a player. This discussion is moot anyway, with today's century he is well on his way. But if he hadn't done anything this tour either, yes, it would be a huge mark against him, to the point of significantly affecting (again, only in my opinion obviously), his all time standing.

Your comparison with New Zealand and Australia are ridiculous imo. Subcontinent conditions are subcontinent conditions. If you scored in country x against quality spin, it is proof enough that you can handle quality spin in subcontinent conditions. Facing India in India compared to facing Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka is not as different as the Aus-Nzl comparision you put forward.

There is a reason why Murali (for example) owns in Sri Lanka but struggles in India. Subcontinent conditions are not uniform throughout the countries.

 

[Pratters]

The question is not one of anomalies, which happen, but being able to fix them after getting repeated tries. At the end of this series, he will have played 12 Tests, which is enough to judge a player. This discussion is moot anyway, with today's century he is well on his way. But if he hadn't done anything this tour either, yes, it would be a huge mark against him, to the point of significantly affecting (again, only in my opinion obviously), his all time standing.

I will have to agree to disagree with you on this. Even if Ponting fails in this series v India over all, I wont hold it against him in judging his quality as a player.

 

[silentstriker]

I will have to agree to disagree with you on this. Even if Ponting fails in this series v India over all, I wont hold it against him in judging his quality as a player.

Fair enough. As I said, the point is almost moot already, so by the end, we won't have anything to disagree about.

 

[Pratters]

There is a reason why Murali (for example) owns in Sri Lanka but struggles in India. Subcontinent conditions are not uniform throughout the countries.

The reason Murali's record in India is poor compared to in Sri Lanka is because he was an ordinary bowler earlier in his career with just one main delivery - the off spinner. He improved drastically as a player later (compare his pre 2000 avg. with his post 2000 avg.) He took 8 wickets in an ODI v India. Sub-continent, Sharjah have similar pitches. Each player wont have a perfect record every where. There will be an anomoly here or there.

 

[ret]

162 pages, many of them full of crap

 

[pup11]

162 pages, many of them full of crap

Wow, you were reading through the last 162 pages....

 

[JackPot]

Wow, you were reading through the last 162 pages....

hats off to ur patience to go thru all of them....:adore:

 

[pup11]

The reason Murali's record in India is poor compared to in Sri Lanka is because he was an ordinary bowler earlier in his career with just one main delivery - the off spinner. He improved drastically as a player later. He took 8 wickets in an ODI v India. Sub-continent, Sharjah have similar pitches. Each player wont have a perfect record every where. There will be an anomoly here or there.

Sri Lanka haven't played too many test matches in India either, have they, so that also plays a part in Murali having an average record in India.