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***Official England in India***
- Thread starter George.Hinton
- Start date
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Maybe but basically he can't be relied on for runs and he'd be a nice luxury at 8 where he can bat with freedom. I accept it won't happen though. Still I'd be miles happier with him at 7 than 6.
Agree that Prior could do 6.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Agree with Martyn that it seems pretty certain Flintoff will bat six. I reckon that's virtually regardless of who keeps wicket, be it Prior or Ambrose. KP is clearly a persuasive fellow and equally clearly wants Flintoff at six currently.
Also agree with anyone who says it's at least 1 slot too high. I'd not be unhappy with him at seven but eight would be best IMO. Craig White batted eight more than once and I've always been of the opinion he was a better batsman than Flintoff. In basic skill there wasn't much between them as bowlers either though Flintoff has managed to achieve far more already with the ball. Seven batsmen (including the wicketkeeper) plus Flintoff means three rank number-elevens can be afforded and currently we don't seem to have many remotely good specialist bowlers who can bat much. There's no automatic reason to think he'd be wasted at eight either, any more than he'd be wasted at six if there were a couple of weak-ish batsmen below him (which there'd have to be for him to be at six on merit).
As far as the Ambrose\Prior situation is concerned, I don't think there's much point discussing it until after the ODIs. Much as it should not be the case, I think it's as simple as if Prior does better than very poorly in the ODIs he'll play the Tests, and if he does sod-all I reckon Ambrose might just do. I maintain that there's nothing to suggest to me that Prior is a better batsman than Ambrose, but that's less relevant than the wicketkeeping. If Prior plays the Tests, I hope to God for the bowlers' sake that he's gotten better. Though the fact that there's just two Tests (his 2 shocking games so far have both come in Third Tests) might help.
Also agree with anyone who says it's at least 1 slot too high. I'd not be unhappy with him at seven but eight would be best IMO. Craig White batted eight more than once and I've always been of the opinion he was a better batsman than Flintoff. In basic skill there wasn't much between them as bowlers either though Flintoff has managed to achieve far more already with the ball. Seven batsmen (including the wicketkeeper) plus Flintoff means three rank number-elevens can be afforded and currently we don't seem to have many remotely good specialist bowlers who can bat much. There's no automatic reason to think he'd be wasted at eight either, any more than he'd be wasted at six if there were a couple of weak-ish batsmen below him (which there'd have to be for him to be at six on merit).
As far as the Ambrose\Prior situation is concerned, I don't think there's much point discussing it until after the ODIs. Much as it should not be the case, I think it's as simple as if Prior does better than very poorly in the ODIs he'll play the Tests, and if he does sod-all I reckon Ambrose might just do. I maintain that there's nothing to suggest to me that Prior is a better batsman than Ambrose, but that's less relevant than the wicketkeeping. If Prior plays the Tests, I hope to God for the bowlers' sake that he's gotten better. Though the fact that there's just two Tests (his 2 shocking games so far have both come in Third Tests) might help.
Salamuddin
International Debutant
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...n-blow-away-Indias-fading-greats-Cricket.html
Interesting comments from Boycott to say the least.....
Interesting comments from Boycott to say the least.....
Salamuddin
International Debutant
Probably the team I'd pick as well. I don't think playing Flintoff in the top 6 in India makes a great deal of sense to me. He has always been a bit dodgy against spin and I think playing 5 specialist bowlers would leave the batting fragile.
Jakester1288
International Regular
No matter where he bats, Flintoff is a must for this Engalnd team. If he bats 8, he has to bowl a lot of overs, or Collingwood needs to bowl more than people want him to. I'm not sure if he fancies himself as a bowler but he should not bowl more than 10 overs an innings. If Flintoff bats at 6, Prior (or whatever keeper is selected) at 7 and then 4 specialist bowlers, it eliminates the need for part timers such as Collingwood and Pietersen to have to bowl much, if at all. I am expecting Flintoff at 6, and then naming 4 specialist bowlers. Not sure who though, possibly Panesar, Broad, Harmison and Plunkett, maybe Hoggard in the mix there as well. I haven't seen England's bowers in action for a while, bar their recent series against South Africa.
tooextracool
International Coach
It is apparent that England will go in with a 5 man bowling attack given the fact that they have only selected 6 front-line batsmen on the tour.
Whether Prior bats ahead of Flintoff will obviously depend on the way the 2 bat in the warm up games and rightfully so IMO.
tooextracool
International Coach
Sorry but I disagree here. Craig White was a far more talented bowler than Flintoff. AFAIC, White could do things that Flintoff couldnt even dream off. That is no slight on Flintoff, for he is a fine bowler, but Flintoff is the sort of bowler that simply makes bowling look harder than it is with his rather ungainly action and has very little variety in his bowling.
To quote a certain someone, if Ambrose plays another test in his career (barring injury to Prior in this series) I'll eat my computer.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Hoggard will never play for England again, whilst Plunkett is unlikely to do so at least for a while. Doubt Broad will be first pick either.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
I think he is right though.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...n-blow-away-Indias-fading-greats-Cricket.html
Interesting comments from Boycott to say the least.....
Its upto the England quicks to make early inroads if England want to win. If a 2nd spinner bowls a lot of overs then India will be will on the way to 500+.
The England plan must be to make early in roads and hope India bat Dhoni at 6 and have a long tail.
The England batting obviously will have a role, but if England want a famous victory then it need the quicks to do special things early.
Jakester1288
International Regular
Hmmm.... he was really good in the 2005 Ashes series, how did he just fall off the radar so quickly? Is he bowling dire or is it just your opinion and your desire that he doesn't play for England again?Hoggard will never play for England again, whilst Plunkett is unlikely to do so at least for a while. Doubt Broad will be first pick either.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
From what I've read in the English cricket press Hoggy's perceived to have lost a bit of nip & he's of an age where such things are generally attributed to the ravages of time rather than blips in form. What is undeniable is that he's lost his central contract, so is clearly has a few seamers ahead of him in our selectors' minds.
Mike Selvey wrote a rather good valedictory article in The Guardian for anyone who's interested.
George.Hinton
Banned
IF we win it will rank as arguably one of England's best wins in the last 20 years (probably 2nd only to the 2005) Ashes IMO.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
It'll be a great achievement were we to pull it off, but two tests just doesn't feel like a "series" to me.
I'd rank Nasser's chaps win in Pakistan & Vaughan's win in SA ahead of it too.
George.Hinton
Banned
It'll be a great acheivement, but two tests just doesn't feel like a "series" to me.
I'd rank Nasser's chaps win in Pakistan & Vaughan's win in SA ahead of it too.
The reason I rate it so highly is that only really good/great sides have won test series in India in the last 25 years.
West Indies 1983
AUstralia 2004
Pakistan 1987
South Africa 2000
oops forgot England in 84 as well
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Fair point, but since readmission only Oz had won in South Africa before we pulled it off and our win in Pakistan was the first since the early 60s I believe, so we bucked history in those series too.
Coming from 1-0 down in Sri Lanka to take the rubber 2-1 was a stirling effort too. Thorpey's finest hour. Without wishing to labour the point, in a two test series such a ball-tearing conclusion woulde be denied us.
Woodster
International Captain
Yes good piece on Hoggy that, enjoyed.
Jakester1288
International Regular
Very good article, well worth the read. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Shame he has just disappeared so suddenly, he was so talented, such a fine bowler. I also like his swing and seam masterclass's on the net as well, well worth a watch for budding swing and seam bowlers.